People Are Same Everywhere

Subject: Why Estonia relocated monument Sun May 13, 2007 1:30 pm

There are many reasons why bronze soldier and graves where relocated.

1. Statue also symbolizes occupation of Estonia. Estonia wasn’t liberated during WW2.
2. It is not acceptable that occupation symbol would be located in centre of town in front Estonian National Library and other important buildings.
3. There have been many demonstrations against monument.
4. Monument was often used as a political provocation tool.
5. It was located in trolley stop, hundreds of people walked on graves every day.

So, to different nations it means different things. Grave peace is now guaranteed. Monument has a new beautiful location in graveyard, old place is covered with flowers, in European Union flag colours.

Statue relocation had nothing to do with fascism.

Guest

Ok.. let's see what does occupation mean for Estonians? I have lived here since it was Soviet Republic and I can tell you what was happening here:

1. Education was in both languages, Estonian and Russian (schools and universities, the only thing was that Russian language lessons were obligatory for all students)
2. Everyone (and Estonians too!) had the right to recieve the USSR citizenship without any examinations, that means also equal rights.
3. Every big enterprise was obliged to have an Estonian as a director and a Russian as a deputy director
4. Estonians were in government (Ansip for example)
5. And about 44000 deported people, no one knows how many of them were exactly Estonians... and it was a case of sneakers...
6. As a very important transit country, Estonia was very well-groomed (buildings, railway, telecomunications, all built then)

So here we can see that truly they don't like that in that time they were somehow depending from Russia. Now Estonia is "free" or in other words depending from EU. Some time will pass and they will say that EU was an occupant maybe...
If the authority of the Soviet Union was so oppresive for Estonians, what can we now say about Russians that live in Estonia? People think that they are not oppresed?
1. Soon education in schools will be only in Estonian, studying in university in Russian is unpromising
2. Some people live here from their birth and still don't have a citizenship
3. Russian is a director of an enterprise only if he has made this enterprise himself
4. Very few people are Russians in government (according to that Russians make up 1/3 of Estonia's population.
5. Our cultural wealth is not respected not by people nor by government.

Too sad that people belive all that politicians say not veryfing verity of this information by themselves.

Joined : 13 May 2007 Posts : 108

CCCP was murthering inoocent, smart people, so others minds could be poisoned, to dominate world. People where brainwashed, there where no any kind of freedom, they tried to make estonians to communists. Government and other organisationes where a joke, they just fallowed Moskva orders.

Dude stop whining, if you live in another country, its for you own good that you speak that country language.
Your additude to your home country and language are main reasons why you dont have citizenships, why not so many gets to high places, why you dont dont have so many places in government.
Learn language, be part of society.
What you mean by cultural wealth? "Liberation" of Estonia? no, it will not be respected.
Tolstoi, Tchaikovsky? We dont have nothing against that kind of culture.

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Wed May 16, 2007 9:47 pm

Could you be in the government whthout knowing Russian in the Soviet times? Nope. It's the same atm. You can't be in the government if you don't know Estonian.

1. That's the reason we have so much distance between ethnic estonians and russians atm- one speak one language, other other.
2. USSR citizenship. Hmm like that would have been a thing to want badly. You couldn't leave here anyway. And you had to request premission from the party to travel somewhere (rarely were you let outside the USSR).
3. Big enterprises were all under the Party's control anyway, doesn't matter who's the president.
5. No Estonians in government would have been too absurd, even for the USSR. And those people were under Party's control anyway. And about Ansip, glad that he has changed his world view. Even if he was a communist before and changed it only to remain in power, it's better than having Savisaar for example.
6. Yea well groomed. All those buildings are giving me chills every time I'm in one. And we were MILES behind other countries when leaving the USSR economy-wise, just like every other ex-USSR country.

And how are we depending on EU? We joined EU 2004, 13 years AFTER leaving USSR- who were we depending on during that time? Ourselves. Our economy's growth had never been this big before. And the desicion to join EU was made by VOTING and those who voted were the LEGAL CITIZENS of Estonia. So it's REALLY different from joining USSR.

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Thu May 17, 2007 12:30 am

I like freedom of speech.
I like to travel.
I like to know the truth.
I like to know that government is subject to people.
I like that fruits of my work = work that I’ve done.
And most of all i like to be Estonian in a free Estonia.
_________________
study

There’s no perfect system because there’s no perfect people but democracy is best way to go.

Joined : 16 May 2007 Posts : 70

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Thu May 17, 2007 2:04 pm

_________________
study

There’s no perfect system because there’s no perfect people but democracy is best way to go.

Guest

I'm agree with all of you! I see your point of view and have a similar one.
But don't understand why do most of Estonians support politics?

Too sad that people belive all that politicians say not veryfing verity of this information by themselves one said Julice...

I'm sorry that politicians look for selfish ends and don't care of peope. It is concerns of each politics, not only Estonian or Russian.
I can see that this step of monument relocation ment something other... Couldn't they foreknow what reaction follows? what will happen to society? The trollybus stop over coffins and new place on beautiful graveyard are just cover for a falshood. It's impossible to believe policians, is it?

Guest

Unfortunately you haven't tasted what does the real occupation means, like some countries in Europe that were under occupation of Germany
I feel realy sad for such thoughts. This isn't a normal society taht is always thinking and being offended by their past.

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Thu May 17, 2007 6:53 pm

Joined : 13 May 2007 Posts : 108

PaulineW that riot was organized by Russia for proffit of Russia.
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king

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Thu May 17, 2007 7:29 pm

Joined : 14 May 2007 Posts : 78 Localisation : BRD

Joined : 17 May 2007 Posts : 112

Subject: Re: Why Estonia relocated monument Thu May 17, 2007 9:21 pm

DerDieDas:

By the way, things have really got much more peaceful after removing this monument and arresting the main vandals. Most of them were already punished for another crimes. Habitual criminals, not normal Russians.

And about celebrating: nobody would stop them if they could celebrate peacefully (and without red CCCP flags, please).