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 United Kingdom vs Russia

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towito

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Number of posts : 112
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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:07 pm

After Litvinienko's death there was idea that murder had been to obvious and it was provocation against Kremlin. Hm.. what this enemy dark forces could be?
Logovoi had so much polon on himself then nobody else, now he is in Russia.
He can go to UK if he is "clean" he won't be tortured they ask him only few questions. It would be gesture of good will.
This situation remind me Kukliński' case. For some in Poland he is hero for some traitor. His two sons died in 90-s, one was chased by car before death, second dissapeard (with friend) on his yacht. Their bodies never were found. All this happend in USA.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:27 pm

Quote :
After Litvinienko's death there was idea that murder had been to obvious and it was provocation against Kremlin. Hm.. what this enemy dark forces could be?

Why dark? Berezovsky. Quite simple.
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:09 am

If it was Berezovsky, why is Russian government so keen to protect Lugovoi? Putin would know if Lugovoi was just acting against him and wouldn't protect the man. But right now it's obvious that Kremlin tries to avoid the court case.


Last edited by on Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:56 pm

Helena wrote:
If it was Berezovsky, why is Russian government so keen to protect Lugovoi? Putin would know if Lugovoi was just acting against him and would protect the man. But right now it's obvious that Kremlin tries to avoid the court case.

Why are we so sure it was Lugovoi who killed him? UK haven't demonstrated any evidences to Russia, they simply said that Russia should extradict Lugovoi. He seems to be a nasty person but we can't be sure...

To be honest, I'm fed up with this issue... Neutral
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:53 pm

I have read that Brits try to build anti-Kremlin coalition among the EU. This might make future expansion of Gazprom to Europe impossible.
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:44 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
Why are we so sure it was Lugovoi who killed him? UK haven't demonstrated any evidences to Russia, they simply said that Russia should extradict Lugovoi. He seems to be a nasty person but we can't be sure...

To be honest, I'm fed up with this issue... Neutral
According to the Scotland Yard there were vestiges of polonium in all the places Lugovoi had been before meeting Litvinenko.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Tensions between Britain and Russia   Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:12 pm

Russia actions 'stain reputation'

I am at a loss what to say Shocked Even in alcoholic Yeltsin's times I didn't feel so ashamed for my country No
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svybski



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PostSubject: keep the hope, dont smash demos, democracy prevails   Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:39 am

NowhereMan wrote:

I am at a loss what to say Shocked Even in alcoholic Yeltsin's times I didn't feel so ashamed for my country No

I really admire some great pro-democratic russian persons, like Kasparov. (as far i have understood, Lugovoi was good man too)

If there is (and there is!) more as good-willing and great personalities in russia, there is always hope for change to better. Someday it comes and sorrow of chechnians (and people from other remote "oblasts"/regions/nations) will end. No more fsb-originated assassins. Maybe russia will even join the EU.

But is UK better than russia in human rights? Does anyone remember the "bloody sunday"?

Unfortunately it seems like democracy is weakened in the EU too, one of the reminders was very unfortunate Smash Asem demonstration, where finnish police ended the peaceful demonstration and arrested innocent by-standers. This is what i have heard and read: The police encircled the crowd and said in the weak voice something like "go away, there is no permit to the demo. The police readies itself to use violence!". Police had masks and threateting riot police equipment and people was somewhat amused because everybody in the demo was calm. Most of the people didnt hear this and there was no way to go because they were encircled. They were then arrested one-by-one (starting from those who had cameras or video cameras so that there was not much evidence of illegal police violence and excessive use of force afterwards). They were transported like cattle (cows) in the bus. The police and frontier guard (yes, the frontier guard) put string to their hands so it was impossible to them to move in the bus. When many of them needed to go toilet, they were forced to pee onto their pants. One girl had her pants down in the bus but arresters didnt help to lift her pants up, which was unnecessary and embarrasing to her. He was one of the innocent bystanders. Only some of arrested ones were charged and put in the court. is this one example of that how the "big money" (companies) uses its muscles? maybe government thinks that overly-protecting the business interests by suppressing freedom of speech they can have something in return? (more taxes?) Evil or Very Mad

Now I am shamed of my country Shocked

Umm.. I just had a thought that, as far as i know, the ministry of internal affairs (or those in power) can order the police.. and via unofficial channels they can, in theory, "order" cancellation of unneeded demonstrations -- they need legal reason/excuse to cancel the demo for that, of course. The reason can be, of course, fabricated. This is possible because you can easily make life of the demonstrator harder (the police can just say that they dont agree with the route/location where the demonstration is going to be held) and you can find faults from any demonstration and use it as reason to cancel it -- this time the reason was related to the route of the demonstration which must be beforehand (why they didnt have permit to demonstrate in one location instead?). technically its legal but very unmoral. I hope this was *not* what happened, but i dont think that they investigated this possibility (as if there can be any proofs of it left!). It's worrying that you can cancel almost any demonstration and totally neglect the freedom-of-speech rights.

There has been similar "treatments" of peaceful demonstrations also in USA. No-place is not safe anymore..

It is very sad when politicians (and we have seen clearly, not even police system everywhere in world) do not understand the necessity of human rights and importance of freedom-of-speech, not even in western countries! Have political systems generally started to lick arses of multinational business elite, instead of serving the people? Maybe it's not the globalisation which is threat to democracy, but amoral multinational companies and their power over international institutions (and perhaps national governments too)

Did you know that e.g. World Bank do not really help poor countries when loaning money, because many times they demand that these poor countries should not invest that money on competing products? Licking, licking..

Maybe this "dictatorship of the companies" is not happening only in the russia, but everywhere. Are they taking over our democracies?

But luckily there are still pro-democratic left in our planet. I knew Kasparov many years ago when I was playing chess, and I even had Kasparov chess computer. Not just master chess player - but intelligent and brave enough to see that his acts for democracy really can make the difference. It's like he really learned to use the spirit of the great game of chess in the real life. I hope he start playing the another great game someday - politics.
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towito

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:22 am

telkola wrote:


But is UK better than russia in human rights? Does anyone remember the "bloody sunday"?


Nice song BTW.

About demonstartions, i read that there was demo against Kasparov arrest and you know that in Russia specially in Moscow it is really hard to do sth like that. But Kasparov supporters found out that single person can manifest with banner (Free Kasparov or sth like that). So they demonstrated in turns. But when sombody had started demo some russet guy appeared (with own banner) so there were two people and milicia came in. And this russet guy appeard every turn. Of course milicia pretend to be tough on him but i was only pretence.
Haha it was so funny for me and quite inteligent. Some russian officer had to play chess.

You say You have Nowhereman Wink


Last edited by on Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:40 pm

Please edit your post Smile I didn't say about human rights in the UK Wink


----

Thanks)
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: United Kingdom vs Russia   Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:29 am

They arrested Viktor Shenderovich with the help of some provocator...
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