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 Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:28 pm

http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=2&NrArticle=81887&NrIssue=445&NrSection=20

Quote :
The inflation after the adoption of Euro is 4 per cent and retail prices increased 20 per cent, which caused the Government to recommend to the citizens to shop in neighbouring Hungary, Croatia and Austria, where prices are lower.

If so, I think that this government should be fired. Razz

Quote :
According to the authorities, culprits for the raised prices are large retail networks like „Mercator“, „Spar“ and „Tush“ that increased the foodstuff prices from 5 to 40 per cent.

For instance, the price of bread was raised for 10, and of dairy products for 20 per cent. This trend, according to the experts, is expected to continue and the new wave of increases in prices to reach another 15 per cent.

This rise is just a small problem in this case. The really big problem is that one currency in countries on different stages of development is a bad solution. If you have own currency then you can run the monetary policy of your country that would fits local needs. Monetary policy with common currency even if we say that central bank would try to do the best job would fit really to nobody (more or less from obvious reasons). But because I'm not an idealist i don't believe that central bank would run such objective policy. Who could influence the policy of central bank? Of course the strongest countries of the EU. If so what is the sense for the new members to join Euro-zone? Such move would be harmful for their economies.

Quote :

Due to that, in some Slovenian cities there are lines of people trying to buy products with old prices, a sight that Slovenia remembers from since the time of Yugoslav economic crisis.

The EU resemble old communist regimes in many other areas as well. Its bureaucracy is even bigger.

Quote :
Currently, Slovenia has the highest inflation in the Euro-zone, and by the end of the year it is expected to reach 6 per cent

I hope that they at least feel to be more "European" Cool


Polish government plans to join Euro-zone about 2012 but we all know that at that time or maybe even sooner someone else will decide about it. How about other EU countries outside of Euro-zone?
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:49 pm

I think joining Euro is probably going to make Estonia even more dependent of the other European countries, we are just going to be more like puppets, and therefore I'm very sorry we are forced to abandon the kroon. It has a bad effect on moral, too, as our own money has been one of the symbols of our independence. But there's nothing we can do any more so we just have to put up with it.
The only good things about that Euro are the fact that our economics is going to be stable as long as the European's economics don't crash (which, though it's unlikely, might happen; remember the Great Depression) and that it'll get more outer investors to our economics (which is actually also going to increase our dependence on the other countries so I don't think if I can even call it good).
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:57 pm

Helena wrote:
But there's nothing we can do any more so we just have to put up with it.

Well, I don't know Estonian constitution but in many countries for example some civic committee might collect certain number of signatures and force government to call for referendum. Resignation is exactly what every bureaucratic regime pushing nonsensical regulations expect from ordinary citizens.

Take example from the Brits or Danes, old members which still refuse to adopt Euro. Opposition of society plays a key role. This is why as usual in the EU when enlightened elites fail to convince ignorant crowd to their ideas, what they do? Of course aim to avoid previously planned referendum. There is hot debate about this issue in the UK and Denmark.

Quote :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2007/09/a_danish_domino.html

The prime minister is thinking about calling an early election in the autumn. But he has got one serious worry: that his opponents will wreck his plans by making hay backing a popular call for a referendum on the EU Reform Treaty.

No, not Gordon Brown. Or perhaps I mean, not just Gordon Brown.

Denmark's conservative leader, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has promised Angela Merkel that he will do his very best to avoid a referendum. They are both painfully aware that it could trigger a domino effect that might knock over Mr Brown by heating up the already pretty hot demands for such a vote in the UK.

After all, look at the impact the Danish No-vote on the Maastricht Treaty had on British domestic politics.

One might ask what this have to do with Euro? What this EU Reform treaty state is:

Quote :

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/research/comparative.pdf
Article 3
The Union objectives

(...)

4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.

The goal is clearly stated, to establish this currency in all member countries, in the UNION. When they will adopt this treaty our politicians will say that we cannot vote on Euro-zone because they need to keep obligations of the Reform treaty. Democracy like hell bom
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:05 pm

As much as I know, all the new members of the EU must join the euro-zone. It was in the contract we signed when we joined the union.
We even have a party (Rahvaliit) who promised before elections (I don't remember when exactly) that if they are going to be chosen, Estonia wouldn't abandon the kroon. There was quite a big mess around it because all the experts assured that it was compulsory to us. Therefore we don't have a chance to avoid Euro.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:38 pm

Quote :
3. When are the acceding countries expected to adopt the euro?

There is no pre-set timetable for the adoption of the euro by the new EU Member States. In order to adopt the euro, they have to achieve a high degree of sustainable economic convergence. This is assessed by the EU Council on the basis of reports produced by the Commission and the ECB on the degree of these countries’ fulfilment of the “Maastricht convergence criteria”. These reports are prepared at least once every two years, or at the request of a Member State wishing to adopt the euro.

http://www.bde.es/eurosist/faqs/faqse.pdf

This is what many says, there is no certain date of adopting euro. If so, you can call for referendum and ask people question below:

Do you agree that Republic of Estonia should adopt the new currency Euro between 2008 -2020? (or in this century Smile ). Bureaucracy would lost with its own weapon. It does matters what is stated in the papers and not author's intentions.

I did spend a while searching for this particular article of the accession treaty. I must say that this is really hard to find but finally I succeed...

Quote :
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement_new/treaty/doc_en/aa00003en03.doc
ACT
CONCERNING THE CONDITIONS OF ACCESSION
OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, THE REPUBLIC OF ESTONIA,
THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA,
THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY,
THE REPUBLIC OF MALTA, THE REPUBLIC OF POLAND,
THE REPUBLIC OF SLOVENIA AND THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC
AND THE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE TREATIES
ON WHICH THE EUROPEAN UNION IS FOUNDED

(...)

ARTICLE 4

Each of the new Member States shall participate in Economic and Monetary Union from the date of accession as a Member State with a derogation within the meaning of Article 122 of the EC Treaty (Article 122 http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/treaties/dat/C_2002325EN.003301.html)

There is more simple and effective solution to prevent joining Euro-zone, I mean breaking up from the EU and retraining independence. Cool EU bureaucrats would say "going the fascist way" Razz
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:09 pm

Do you mean we should leave from EU? What about handling Russia?
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 pm

If only fear of Russia keeps you in the EU, you should be aware that fear is not good adviser. Estonian economy is in good condition thanks to successful transition period and Laar's reforms. Economically you don't need to be member of the EU. What you need is to join Schengen zone what will happen soon anyway. This have nothing to do with the EU, Norway for example is in this zone and outside of the EU, the UK otherwise. If you afraid military invasion then the EU is not defensive organization. This is role of NATO, US in particular. Energetically Estonia does not depends from Russian deliveries, the EU anyway refused to accept Polish proposal in this matter. Geopolitically role of small countries like Estonia is none, so you might easily join Norway, Switzerland, some smaller countries and preserve independence.
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:15 am

Fear is not a good adviser maybe but in case we should have some more serious conflict we would need some back-up and the EU is a sure guarantee that we shall have it.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:41 am

Helena wrote:
Fear is not a good adviser maybe but in case we should have some more serious conflict we would need some back-up and the EU is a sure guarantee that we shall have it.
EU is an economical union. If anything, it can decide to use economical sanctions against an attacking enemy. That and it can talk. But we all know that doesn't really matter (League of Nations after WW1 and before WW2)...

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Slovenians regret for adopting the Euro   Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:14 am

I would like to knot how do you think the EU would help Estonia if invaded by Russia. Logically thinking almost the same countries are members of NATO and the EU, so if theoretically they would be unwilling to help you from the first reason (NATO) which is obligatory then what makes you sure the fact of your EU membership would makes a difference?

Even if they would decide for some economical sanctions only, still Estonia would be occupied by Russia. Kremlin if decided for such drastic move like invasion would certainly not withdrawn because of some sanctions. What is more they would stop oil and gas deliveries to Europe which is heavily dependent.

I will bring here a little curiosity which expose a bit behavior of the key member of the EU, France when they deal with Russia. When military coup (1991) happened in Russia the French (president Mitterand) almost immediately recognized the new rulers, those who finally lost anyway.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20611F634550C7B8CDDA00894D9494D81&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fM%2fMitterrand%2c%20Francois
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