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 A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE

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Hypno
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PostSubject: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:18 pm

Full article (in Estonian) in the SL Õhtuleht of 20th Nov.

The webpage of the future party- http://www.oie.ee/ (only in Estonian right now)


Tarmo Kruusmäe is trying to form a new political party in Estonia thats main objectives include making Estonia an ecocountry, legalizing cannabis and leaving the EU.

The new party's name would be Õnnelike Inimeste Erakond (ÕIE) or the Party of Happy People / the Happy Peoples Party (I don't know which sounds worse Razz )


Below are all the main goals that are brought out on their webpage (plus some my explanations based on their Program in italic):
- Raising the minimum salary.
- Re-orientate the education system towards the development of science and technics.
- Environment- friendly techniques (/technics?)
- Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels in transport. (They don't mean atomic energy, but rather alternative energy like wind/sun/etc and totally new techniques like cars running on water and fuel made from ethanol)
- Banning unhealthy foods and pharmacy products (probably everything that has more chemistry in it than REALLY essential)
- Raising the alcohol tax.
- Banning gambling.
- Keeping Estonia's own currency (that is, opposing the Euro)
- Legalizing cannabis (For both industrial and personal use. They intend cannabis-based products to have a big role in our economy (cloth, paper, rope, ethanol fuel, plastic, etc) and the cannabis "joints" to be the main tourist attraction, the taxes from selling cannabis forming strongly over half of the total income from taxes. The cannabis industry would be under the governments control.)
- Public discussion over energetics.
- Switching to professional army. (That is, abandoning conscription)
- No to the EU. (We'd still be a part of the economic part of the union, they mainly oppose the idea of an European Constitution and the loss of independence for Estonia. They would create a favorable tax-environment to foreign companies, compared to the one of the EU, so they would move their headquarters here.)

They also wish to develop and support the scientific research made in Estonia, increasing and creating science centers in here, encouraging foreign "geniuses" to work and live here, earning a lot from renting and selling patents, thus making industrial production less necessary lessening it, thus protecting the environment more (if I understand everything correctly, it sounds a bit like lots of Silicon Valleys Razz ). Also increasing the output of scientists from our universities.

So, your thoughts about it, based on what I have managed to post here (which is quite a small part of it) right now please Smile . If you have any questions about their views or anything, ask and I'll try to find the answers from their webpage.


I have to say I do agree with some of their views- about the scientific research things (though I do think they need to be really good not to create a situation where we have too many men of science and not enough simple-people Razz ) for example. Also using the new techniques in energetics and such (I mean, there ARE better ways than using fossil fuels, but the oil companies have governments under their paw mostly). I don't know about banning anything, like unhealthy food (probably things like coca-cola, McDonalds, instant noodles and other half-chemical stuff). If anything, they should be made a lot more expensive than their healthy alternatives. Also about banning casinos as family destroyers. I'd rather be all in for there being a system where you can only spend a certain amount of money in a casino and it would depend on your financial status and such.

Now legalizing cannabis (btw it is legal to grow and use industrial cannabis in Estonia, if you have the licence) could even be a good thing, if done wisely and under strict control. I mean I have never heard anything bad about it, except that it leads to the use of worse drugs. But I think it's only because you have to deal with drug dealers and other criminals to get it right now. I mean, Netherlands is still ok and where it was before they legalized cannabis, right? Razz

I have already stated my opinions about mercenary army, so I will simply say- I'm in favor of it.

And I also would oppose Estonia becoming a province of United States of Europe Smile . But as long as it hasn't happened I'm supportive of the EU.

Still I'm a bit concerned- the talk is pretty and flowery, but it seems a bit too pretty to become truth. Also, the head of this new party, Tarmo Kruusmäe tried to scam several people five years ago, by claiming to collect charity to an eight year old girl diagnosed with Myasthenia gravis. It later came out that the girl never existed. Kruusmäe claimed he was conducting an experiment and paid back all the donations and the charges were dropped.



EDIT: "Ok, my typo... the Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels." should rather be "Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels in transport."

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:21 pm

Hypno wrote:

- Raising the minimum salary.

Populism. Always when socialists do that rate of unemployment rise. More people ask for social pensions in consequence. I oppose.

Quote :

- Re-orientate the education system towards the development of science and technics.

You know that I oppose goverment involvement into education... It would be good if more people wanted to study this, however it depends from their will mostly. Let say it clearly, technical universities are not the easiest way to master grade and for many young people this is the most important. Of course goverment could lower more and more education level to attract more and more people but I would not call this development then. I oppose.


Quote :
- Environment- friendly techniques (/technics?)

Too general slogan to judge. In energetic sector I support geothermal energy and nuclear plants. However I would not abandon coal for sure. Hopefully they don't want to touch building industry, otherwise young people in Estonia would really struggle to buy a flat (they struggle anyway, because of the EU entry)

Quote :
- Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels. (They don't mean atomic energy, but rather alternative energy like wind/sun/etc and totally new techniques like cars running on water and fuel made from ethanol)

You wont replace fossil fuels by sun/wind. More this and you will just pay higher bills. Ask any electrician. I oppose.

Quote :
- Banning unhealthy foods and pharmacy products (probably everything that has more chemistry in it than REALLY essential)

Nonsense. If you don't want to eat this then don't buy it! Pure socialism. I oppose.


Quote :
- Raising the alcohol tax.

Socialism, I oppose.

Quote :
- Banning gambling.

Again socialism, unbelievable how they care about Estonian people! I oppose.

Quote :
- Keeping Estonia's own currency (that is, opposing the Euro)

Finally some reasonable point in their program. Estonia should run such monetary policy that fits to Estonian needs. Good common monetary policy for all Europe is impossible, because different countries are on different level of development. I support!


Quote :
- Legalizing cannabis (For both industrial and personal use. They intend cannabis-based products to have a big role in our economy (cloth, paper, rope, ethanol fuel, plastic, etc) and the cannabis "joints" to be the main tourist attraction, the taxes from selling cannabis forming strongly over half of the total income from taxes. The cannabis industry would be under the governments control.)

I must say that this point doesn't fit to above mentioned point where they are supposed to care about health of citizens so much. One exception for cannabises and enthusiasts of all other "competitions" will show up demanding their "rights". I oppose.


Quote :
- Public discussion over energetics.

Empty slogan. Citizens have no clue about energetics, this is issue for specialists. Perhaps they want to ask people whether they are willing to pay higher bills for enjoying wind-energy? Smile

Quote :
- Switching to professional army. (That is, abandoning conscription)

Obviously I support!

Quote :

- No to the EU. (We'd still be a part of the economic part of the union, they mainly oppose the idea of an European Constitution and the loss of independence for Estonia. They would create a favorable tax-environment to foreign companies, compared to the one of the EU, so they would move their headquarters here.)

You know my opinion about EU bureaucracy... I support!

Quote :

And I also would oppose Estonia becoming a province of United States of Europe Smile . But as long as it hasn't happened I'm supportive of the EU.

But this was already decided long time ago. You think about what these European parties are about? The process of integration (old good centralization) will never be over till one federal state wont be established. The project is just slightly different than above mentioned name, yoiu need to add one adjective at the beginning. The Socialist United States of Europe. If you really care about independence of Estonia then this is the highest time to dig some EUsceptic literature. This is something that you wont hear/read in mainstream media outlets.
You may start from this article.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/11/politics-of-contempt.html
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:48 am

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Hypno wrote:

- Raising the minimum salary.

Populism. Always when socialists do that rate of unemployment rise. More people ask for social pensions in consequence. I oppose.
Forgot to mention, they wanna tie the pensions with minimum salary so if one goes up, the other does aswell.

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Quote :
- Environment- friendly techniques (/technics?)

Too general slogan to judge. In energetic sector I support geothermal energy and nuclear plants. However I would not abandon coal for sure. Hopefully they don't want to touch building industry, otherwise young people in Estonia would really struggle to buy a flat (they struggle anyway, because of the EU entry)

Quote :
- Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels in transport. (They don't mean atomic energy, but rather alternative energy like wind/sun/etc and totally new techniques like cars running on water and fuel made from ethanol)

You wont replace fossil fuels by sun/wind. More this and you will just pay higher bills. Ask any electrician. I oppose.
Umm yup that was a typo that I made, sorry. Fossil fuels to be replaced in transport... But what they really mean (I think) is using totally new technics (they didn't mention anything specific but I'm guessing like motors running on water and sci-fi stuff like that)

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Quote :
- Legalizing cannabis (For both industrial and personal use. They intend cannabis-based products to have a big role in our economy (cloth, paper, rope, ethanol fuel, plastic, etc) and the cannabis "joints" to be the main tourist attraction, the taxes from selling cannabis forming strongly over half of the total income from taxes. The cannabis industry would be under the governments control.)

I must say that this point doesn't fit to above mentioned point where they are supposed to care about health of citizens so much. One exception for cannabises and enthusiasts of all other "competitions" will show up demanding their "rights". I oppose.
Actually they fit it right in. They also oppose the "evil pharmacy companies that make medicine that either mostly won't help us or make us even worse". They would probably use cannabis for it's "preventive effect and effectiveness in curing illnesses". They claim that cannabis is more effective than aspirin.

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matrixx



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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:45 pm

Hypno wrote:
Tarmo Kruusmäe is trying to form a new political party in Estonia thats main objectives include making Estonia an ecocountry, legalizing cannabis and leaving the EU.

So people could smoke themselves green and be easy prey to Russia's ambitions? No, thank you.

Hypno wrote:

The new party's name would be Õnnelike Inimeste Erakond (ÕIE) or the Party of Happy People / the Happy Peoples Party (I don't know which sounds worse Razz )
Yup, ignorance is bliss. Especially when you're high

Hypno wrote:

- Switching to professional army. (That is, abandoning conscription)
Right. This would mean we disband the whole army. I oppose fully - every man should know how to handle firearms, be in a good physical form and be able to work under stressful situations. But as this party's main goal is to be able to freely smoke cannabis I understand why they promote this idea.

Hypno wrote:

I mean, Netherlands is still ok and where it was before they legalized cannabis, right? Razz
I don't think so - they have been getting more crazier with every year.

Edit: To clarify my position towards the army. I especially like the Switzerland's system, where there is small regular army, but every male citizen is part of the so called People's Army. They have regular training sessions (once a year I think).
To quote the wikipedia:
Quote :

The armed forces consist of a small nucleus of about 3,600 professional staff, half of whom are either instructors or staff officers, with the rest being conscripts or volunteers. All able-bodied Swiss males aged between 19 and 31 must serve, and although entry to recruit school may be delayed due to senior secondary school, it is no longer possible to postpone it for university studies. About one third is excluded for various reasons, and these either serve in Civil Protection or Civilian Service.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:03 pm

matrixx wrote:
Hypno wrote:

- Switching to professional army. (That is, abandoning conscription)
Right. This would mean we disband the whole army. I oppose fully - every man should know how to handle firearms, be in a good physical form and be able to work under stressful situations. But as this party's main goal is to be able to freely smoke cannabis I understand why they promote this idea.
I'd also be in favor of a professional army but still having a mandatory service time, where you'll learn to use firearms and some basics. However, I wouldn't want it to be longer than 3-4 months. And the once a year training camps won't keep you fit Razz

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:54 am

Hypno wrote:

- Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels in transport. (They don't mean atomic energy, but rather alternative energy like wind/sun/etc and totally new techniques like cars running on water and fuel made from ethanol)

No way how they could fulfill this election promise. This just don't belong to their competences. This is up to private companies to figure out such technology which should be economically superior because otherwise nearly nobody would switch willingly (of course socialist way is to force everybody to do so).


Quote :
- Legalizing cannabis (For both industrial and personal use. They intend cannabis-based products to have a big role in our economy (cloth, paper, rope, ethanol fuel, plastic, etc) and the cannabis "joints" to be the main tourist attraction, the taxes from selling cannabis forming strongly over half of the total income from taxes. The cannabis industry would be under the governments control.)

It seems that they sacrifice way to much of attention to this sideline topic. How to treat them seriously then?

Quote :

They claim that cannabis is more effective than aspirin.

This is just a conspiracy theory lol!

Quote :
Right. This would mean we disband the whole army. I oppose fully - every man should know how to handle firearms, be in a good physical form and be able to work under stressful situations.

I have posted a topic about professionals army, go there and you will realize how backward solution is used in Estonia (and my Poland too) and how many serious countries switched to this system. People after draft are just cannon fodder.

Anyway the only way to stabilize Eastern-Central Europe for ever is to obtain nuclear weapons (most likely by Poland cause is the biggest from post-communist camp). This is my personal theory Smile Ironically such powerful weapon is the only guarantee of safety. Otherwise you could naively count on somebodies help that will never come.
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:44 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Hypno wrote:
They claim that cannabis is more effective than aspirin.

This is just a conspiracy theory lol!
Speaking of conspiracy theories, they do mention that 9/11 is all set-up by the "own guys" (probably referring to the Bush administration) and also the microchip conspiracy theory ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39XsMcyvgA - Microchip Mark of the Beast lol! )

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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:58 pm

Hello again:)

- Raising the minimum salary.
It's more important to stop the inflation. If we keep raising the salaries it will just increase the inflation. On the other hand I think it's a good idea to bind the pensions with minimum salary (or the average salary).

- Re-orientate the education system towards the development of science and technics.
I hope I don't have to study more physics, mathematics and chemistry, so no Smile It's necessary to teach everyone the essentials but people should choose themselves what they want to learn deeply.

- Environment- friendly techniques (/technics?)
I support if it's not empty words and populism as usually.

- Taking a course towards abandoning fossil fuels in transport. (They don't mean atomic energy, but rather alternative energy like wind/sun/etc and totally new techniques like cars running on water and fuel made from ethanol.)
Wind energy is not that good at all. The reasons:
1. It's expensive.
2. It's bad to environment and animals. No animals can live near the generators. As they are usually built on seaside the generators disturb birds and kill the ones who happen to fly towards them. Besides they are not comfortable for people as their noise can be heard even a km away.
The only suitable variant for them would be to build them in open sea. This idea has already been mentioned by the Green party.
But if they want to product more green energy by the other means, I of course support.

- Banning unhealthy foods and pharmacy products (probably everything that has more chemistry in it than REALLY essential).
An interesting plan but people wouldn't accept that anyway.

- Raising the alcohol tax.
It wouldn't probably decrease the misuse of alcohol and there would more accidents with illegal alcohol. For example, couple of years ago we had a case near Pärnu where 68 died because of illegal alcohol that consisted methanol (~10 more poisonous than ethanol and makes you ~10x less drunk).

- Banning gambling.
Usually I'm against gambling because it destroys people's lives but this plan is so enormous that I doubt if they could do it.

- Keeping Estonia's own currency (that is, opposing the Euro).
Definitely.

- Legalizing cannabis (For both industrial and personal use. They intend cannabis-based products to have a big role in our economy (cloth, paper, rope, ethanol fuel, plastic, etc) and the cannabis "joints" to be the main tourist attraction, the taxes from selling cannabis forming strongly over half of the total income from taxes. The cannabis industry would be under the governments control.)
They are talking about improving people's health but what we were told at school is that according the new researches cannabis is probably linked to schizophrenia. I know myself some people who have had too close relationship with cannabis and they are not like normal people any more.

- Public discussion over energetics.
That's what they all promise.

- Switching to professional army. (That is, abandoning conscription)
I have already told what I think about this plan. It's as good as abandoning any national defence plan at all.

- No to the EU. (We'd still be a part of the economic part of the union, they mainly oppose the idea of an European Constitution and the loss of independence for Estonia. They would create a favorable tax-environment to foreign companies, compared to the one of the EU, so they would move their headquarters here.)
This has both negative and positive sides but right now I'd say no.
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:22 pm

Rczecospolita, Estonian nation is too small to have a professional army.
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:15 am

Hypno wrote:
main objectives include making Estonia an ecocountry, legalizing cannabis and leaving the EU.

Lets legalize cannabis in EU!!!
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:30 am

telkola wrote:
Hypno wrote:
main objectives include making Estonia an ecocountry, legalizing cannabis and leaving the EU.

Lets legalize cannabis in EU!!!
Maybe at you people are cultured enough for that.
If it would be legalized in Hungary, there would be only more people trying hard-drugs, if light-ones are already legal, then one must try the next step -> typical over here.
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PostSubject: Re: A new political party to be formed in Estonia- ÕIE   Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:59 pm

Idiots, dont you know that the persons who raises alcohol taxes is soon to be dead!
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