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PdM

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Number of posts : 77
Localisation : Land of ducks and potatoes
Registration date : 2007-06-09

PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:45 am

Yeah, the Palace of Culture and Science has been smashed to ground, right? Dummy steets has been changed, but people who live there still use old names.
What is the funniest thing, fanatical right changed name of streets even without agreement of people who live there. Now hard core conservatists have plates with old names on buildings. And people, who are against national-catolicspolitics use the old names Wink Example - Popiełuszki street in Warsaw.
In image:
http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/2/3962/z3962032X.jpg
There you can see the old plate at Popiełuszki street. At church Laughing
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:33 am

I disagree, not all monuments were destroyed, well probably most of'em,
and the ones wich are featuring or gloryfing communistic activists wich are considered to be the bad guys. However I wouldn't like to remove all of the monuments, it's not good to just erase the history of socialist Poland completely, I think there's no need to remove monuments of for example statues of the Russian soldiers, only statues like Lenin, Stalin, Bierut etc. remember that the Russian soldiers weren't the ones who took decision about occupying us, they were just made to go there and fight. Stalin made the decision of occupation.
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PdM

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:28 pm

Agree. Those soldiers who were late to join AK, joined Red Army.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:03 pm

Palace of Culture and Science is a building not monument, only an idiot would want to destroy it. I live in Gdansk, name of the streets were changed long time ago and people already use only the new names.

About monument of Soviet soldiers, their place is on cemeteries. If you want to build monument to commemorate Polish soldiers from Berling army, this is something else. Also I need to point out that Poland never stopped to be socialist. Smile
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:26 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Palace of Culture and Science is a building not monument, only an idiot would want to destroy it. I live in Gdansk, name of the streets were changed long time ago and people already use only the new names.

About monument of Soviet soldiers, their place is on cemeteries. If you want to build monument to commemorate Polish soldiers from Berling army, this is something else. Also I need to point out that Poland never stopped to be socialist. Smile

How do you mean this last sentence?
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:44 pm

Never ended to be Socialist? Now that's pretty silly, it did a long time ago, and if You mean the 3rd Republic that it was than go home, it wasn't, okay today's government is pretty odd indeed, but not socialist or communistic, yet.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:47 pm

This is simple, after 1989 we were ruled only by post- communist, their agents and social conservatives. Many years passed and the country still is not reformed. Politicians are afraid to lose support if they push for some economically liberal reform. But our society change as well, economic liberalism is well perceived by more and more people. Time for our politicians to notice this trend.
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:54 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
This is simple, after 1989 we were ruled only by post- communist, their agents and social conservatives. Many years passed and the country still is not reformed. Politicians are afraid to lose support if they push for some economically liberal reform. But our society change as well, economic liberalism is well perceived by more and more people. Time for our politicians to notice this trend.

Omfg you're one of them! Get away from me! Gah! Perhaps some of them were ''post-communistic'' but not all of them.
P3rk3l3! there were a lot of reforms in Poland, well except the economic liberalism part, I hope time for that will come soon. pig
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:08 pm

«Trayus» wrote:

Omfg you're one of them! Get away from me! Gah! Perhaps some of them were ''post-communistic'' but not all of them.
P3rk3l3! there were a lot of reforms in Poland, well except the economic liberalism part, I hope time for that will come soon. pig

Economic reforms are the most important, I put them above everything else.

Whom are “them” by the way?
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:11 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
This is simple, after 1989 we were ruled only by post- communist, their agents and social conservatives. Many years passed and the country still is not reformed. Politicians are afraid to lose support if they push for some economically liberal reform. But our society change as well, economic liberalism is well perceived by more and more people. Time for our politicians to notice this trend.

So isn't it embarrassing? Being full with old commies? Lol, it should be in the other topic ---> Old commies
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:14 pm

I mean these righties wich are always mocking the 3rd Republic, sure it wasn't perfect but what would You expect? Most of bad things wich accured by than were impossible to avoid, and that's just the part of development and advancing, sloving and fixing problems from the soviet past. cyclops
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:15 pm

Kiskun wrote:


So isn't it embarrassing? Being full with old commies? Lol, it should be in the other topic ---> Old commies
Yours at least admitted tha they are liars Smile
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:22 pm

Kiskun wrote:
Rzeczpospolita wrote:
This is simple, after 1989 we were ruled only by post- communist, their agents and social conservatives. Many years passed and the country still is not reformed. Politicians are afraid to lose support if they push for some economically liberal reform. But our society change as well, economic liberalism is well perceived by more and more people. Time for our politicians to notice this trend.

So isn't it embarrassing? Being full with old commies? Lol, it should be in the other topic ---> Old commies

Full? Nah, there aren't much of them today now, many of them got converted
to democracy as someone said before or they just left the politics.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:24 pm

«Trayus» wrote:
I mean these righties wich are always mocking the 3rd Republic, sure it wasn't perfect but what would You expect? Most of bad things wich accured by than were impossible to avoid, and that's just the part of development and advancing, sloving and fixing problems from the soviet past. cyclops

Of course that this was impossible to avoid if we consider those whom were the deciders. So what? Waste is waste.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:29 pm

«Trayus» wrote:


Full? Nah, there aren't much of them today now, many of them got converted
to democracy as someone said before or they just left the politics.

First of all they were never true communist as well as they are not true socialist or leftists. Ask Bugaj, he is true socialist. Post-communists have no any particular views, they just changed flags and their only aim is to be in the top where cash lies.
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:29 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
«Trayus» wrote:
I mean these righties wich are always mocking the 3rd Republic, sure it wasn't perfect but what would You expect? Most of bad things wich accured by than were impossible to avoid, and that's just the part of development and advancing, sloving and fixing problems from the soviet past. cyclops

Of course that this was impossible to avoid if we consider those whom were the deciders. So what? Waste is waste.

Waste? you mean changing the Constitution on better, joining EU, NATO, WTO, making life more democratic and other great deeds?

Quote :
..their only aim is to be in the top where cash lies.

Pretty much righties have such aim aswel.
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PdM

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:52 pm

Bugaj? That guy who voted for PiS and Kaczyński? He is socialist? Buahahah! Great joke!
Iknonowicz, Ilkowski, and other are socialists. Bugaj is rather national-socialist. LiD and the Kwa¶niewski team are rather centro-left, than socialists.

Actually PO and PiS were changing flags many times... And this, what is PiS&co doing now is exacly TKM. So don't tell faeries about beeing in the top, where cash lies.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:10 pm

«Trayus» wrote:


Waste? you mean changing the Constitution on better, joining EU, NATO, WTO, making life more democratic and other great deeds?

We are in NATO while our army is in pathetic shape. We are in WTO and EU without even seriously trying to reform our economy.

Quote :


Pretty much righties have such aim aswel.

SLD is the moist corrupt party in Poland for sure, the number of exposed affairs speak for itself.

Quote :

Bugaj? That guy who voted for PiS and Kaczyński? He is socialist? Buahahah! Great joke!
Iknonowicz, Ilkowski, and other are socialists. Bugaj is rather national-socialist. LiD and the Kwa¶niewski team are rather centro-left, than socialists.

Bugaj is true socialist because he puts above economy over BS issues like homo marriages or ecology. He voted for Kaczynski because Kaczynski is socialist just conservative one. Why would he vote for Tusk? Kwasniewski voted for Tusk because he is not socialist.

Ikonowicz belongs to radical left.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:19 pm

PdM wrote:

Actually PO and PiS were changing flags many times... And this, what is PiS&co doing now is exacly TKM. So don't tell faeries about beeing in the top, where cash lies.

About PO I agree but PiS rather not. They were ruled by Kaczynski bros as a PC and their program is pretty the same. I vote for neither party so I have no reason to defend them
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:50 pm

Quote :
We are in NATO while our army is in pathetic shape. We are in WTO and EU without even seriously trying to reform our economy.

Our armies ain't that pathetic, but the weapons are, the army is small indeed, but do we really need a great army? It was advanced enough to take part in the Iraq and other missions.

Do you really think there were no reforms? Don't be foolish, no offence.
Could be better, but not when PiS and their coalition is on the lead.
I'd rather have PO and LiD as a coalition than them.

lol!
Btw. PiS seems to be worse than PO, PiS tried to accuse PO on lots of things, nothing was proved, they talk with more sense than PiS anyway. PO want's to make economy liberal as I heard.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:06 pm

LiD is SLD. In whole Tricity this silly LiD didn’t won even single seat in the city councils. I wish them the same in parliamentary elections. Unfortunately some people will never change, they are destined to corruption with no hope to improve. The lose case.

PiS is worse than PO? Even if, difference is very small. About PO promises? They aren’t in big politics not from yesterday and what they did thought all this time toward liberal economy. Absolutely nothing, they just talking, if you even take a look at their voting record now, you will figure out how many times they backed PiS’s socialist ideas. Grants for newborn children for example and one time extra payment for pensioners is their exclusive idea! Probably none other liberal party in the world would dare to come with something similar.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:39 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
«Trayus» wrote:


Full? Nah, there aren't much of them today now, many of them got converted
to democracy as someone said before or they just left the politics.

First of all they were never true communist as well as they are not true socialist or leftists. Ask Bugaj, he is true socialist. Post-communists have no any particular views, they just changed flags and their only aim is to be in the top where cash lies.

Exactly the same here. That is why I rather say "commies" referring to them.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:45 pm

Be careful with that liberal economy! Of course, if it is really too state-owned, then change, but don't let it go too corruptly as it was here with privatizations in the 90's.

"Kiskacsa fürdik, fekete tóba',
anyjához készül Lengyelországba..."

"Little duck is bathing in black lake,
he/she is leaving for his/her mother, to Poland..."

Lol, just another stuff which crossed my mind mentioning Poland, a child-song
Very Happy
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:53 pm

Kiskun wrote:
Be careful with that liberal economy! Of course, if it is really too state-owned, then change, but don't let it go too corruptly as it was here with privatizations in the 90's.

I would privatize almost everything, naturally it is necessary to point people personally responsible for every each privatization before started. If later some corruption deals would be proofed they would go to prison. We have plenty of flawed privatizations and nobody was finally imprisoned. So this is “success” from the beginning to the end! Cool

I have seen recently scientific research, a comparison of DNA structures of European countries. It was clear that the most genetically similar people to us Poles were Hungarians. Perhaps this at least partially explain above mentioned successful privatizations in both countries. Wink
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: To Poland   Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:07 pm

Quote :
..I have seen recently scientific research, a comparison of DNA structures of European countries. It was clear that the most genetically similar people to us Poles were Hungarians...

Really? That's intresting, where'd You seen it? On some channel or site?

By the way, did they include Czech's and other Slavic countries? I would find it rather strange and fascinating that Hungarians are more similar to us than Czech's or Slovakians. 0_o
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