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 Naši

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DerDieDas



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 11:53 am

Earthland wrote:
The only thing Russians answer to the question that how they are discriminated here is "oh my god, they they want to make us speak Estonian!" Oh, how terrible, Russia would occuapte such fascism country once again, or what? Rolling Eyes .

If you would be really interested in this problem, then you would see that there is much more than just "oh my god, they they want to make us speak Estonian!". But with no interest you will never see it. cyclops
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 12:02 pm

Quote :
Of course Helena,

stay back from reality and search for empty excuses.

hm, strange. Change word "China" with "Russia", if you want, maybe you understand the what Helena tried to tell you. Btw, it's very easy way to go- if I don't like sth, then it's boring, empty, pointles... very easy, really.

Well DDD, tell me sth about how Russians are discriminated here. in Estonia they haven't complained nothing expect that there's too much Estonian language in Estonia.
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DerDieDas



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 12:15 pm

Earthland wrote:
hm, strange. Change word "China" with "Russia", if you want, maybe you understand the what Helena tried to tell you. Btw, it's very easy way to go- if I don't like sth, then it's boring, empty, pointles... very easy, really.

I have understand what Helena wanted to tell me. She wanted to find an excusion for the hate against the Russian minority. And this way of thinking IS pointless.


Earthland wrote:
Well DDD, tell me sth about how Russians are discriminated here. in Estonia they haven't complained nothing expect that there's too much Estonian language in Estonia.

Have you ever heard something about the rights of minorities? It can´t be, that an developed country have such idiotic things like "speaking police". I mean, is Estonia in Europe or in Saudi Arabia? Rolling Eyes
The Estonian Policy shows also that no one want a dialogue with the russian minority.
And as even "Helena" said, the most Estonians hate them.

consequences of this hate:

less jobs
less payment
less contact
...
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 1:14 pm

DerDieDas wrote:
Earthland wrote:
hm, strange. Change word "China" with "Russia", if you want, maybe you understand the what Helena tried to tell you. Btw, it's very easy way to go- if I don't like sth, then it's boring, empty, pointles... very easy, really.

I have understand what Helena wanted to tell me. She wanted to find an excusion for the hate against the Russian minority. And this way of thinking IS pointless.

I can be mistaken, but Russians hate Estonians more than we hate Russians. Well, maybe they're not welcomed in some parts of Estonia. And that's all.

Actually Helena tried to tell you, why we don't like Russians so much. I think we still have right not like some people. It was just explanation why we feel so. or do you want to say we must love our occupaters and do everything they want? Yeah, I'd like that, woudn't you? very logical.


Quote :
Earthland wrote:
Well DDD, tell me sth about how Russians are discriminated here. in Estonia they haven't complained nothing expect that there's too much Estonian language in Estonia.

Have you ever heard something about the rights of minorities? It can´t be, that an developed country have such idiotic things like "speaking police". I mean, is Estonia in Europe or in Saudi Arabia? Rolling Eyes
The Estonian Policy shows also that no one want a dialogue with the russian minority.
And as even "Helena" said, the most Estonians hate them.

consequences of this hate:

less jobs
less payment
less contact
...

And they have their rights. But it is our home, they came in here, they must accept some things now (like language Rolling Eyes ) .

Russians are not discriminated here. Everyone can say "minorities must have rights!". Explain it, please. They have their rights. Maybe some Estonians really don't like them, but Helena didn't say we hate them Rolling Eyes . It is not discrimination. Give me some example of that some Russians has loose his job or sth else like that (I mean, because he was Russian not because he didn't do his work well or couldn't speak Estonian ´that is needed) .

The Estonian Policy shows also that no one want a dialogue with the russian minority.

No Russians hasn't ever want dialogue. Well, sometimes they shout in streets "Rossija!" and "it was right to deport you, (")fascists(")!"
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 1:45 pm

what language police you are talking about, ofcource country representative must talk country language.

Russians have same rights as estonians. if they dont have same sucsess or opportunities, its becouse they are stupid - they are stupid to understand that knowing language opens many doors, haveing stupid arrogant additude that russians are kings of world. Its not only in Estonia, in other countries as well they doesnt learn language and doesnt try to be part of local society. Did you know that 60% of criminal acts in Estonia is being done by russians, though theres 30% of them. To achive some things in other county you have to work for it, complaining and being arrogant doesnt get you anywhere.
Estonians doesnt respect russians who doesnt respect Estonia and estonians. Learning laguage is good example of respect, many have lived here like 30 years but know only few words. Other forigen people from other countries learn language in half year, do business and live successfully. Why should we respect someone who doesnt respect us.

Result is people, who have lower level jobs, doing dirty work for estonians, whining people who doesnt understand Estonia government and estonians, screaming rossia rossia on streets. Estonia is economically most successful country of ex soviet union countries, im sure we will develope fastly in future as well. They doesnt want to be part of it? Their problem. Stupidity, isnt it?


Last edited by on Sun May 20, 2007 2:15 pm; edited 5 times in total
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 1:54 pm

DerDieDas wrote:
Of course Helena,

stay back from reality and search for empty excuses. Suspect I´m a volga-german, there is no need to fabricate some "China-stories" for me. Just as I said, there is no excusion for the race-hate and there is also no pardon for the discrimination.

Helena is completely right, that's a paradox of Estonia's situation atm, which you dont even try to understand. most of these russians complaining about discrimination are the ones (and their children, who refuse to integrate) who were imported here during the occupation. they still feel like they still have a bigger right to live here than estonians. that's wrong. they have equal rights and responsebilities with estonians, they aren't special people here who need a special treatment. if you have a shop in estonia, it should self-evident that you deal with them in estonian. or if you were in the parliament of Estonia, you speak and work with things in estonian. that's the same if I moved to to russia and start living there. I wont be treated in finnish there, I cant go to russian "parliament" if I dont speak russia. try to understand the situation before you continue talking about your "ideology" of proud and the only nation russia, which needs a special treatment in any part of the world....
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:02 pm

Voodoo wrote:
what language police you are talking about.
Thats what I was wondering about.
Never heard of such a thing.
If some estonian has figured out what he means by this, can you please tell me estonian expression for it.
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:04 pm

Voodoo wrote:
what language police you are talking about, ofcource country representative must talk country language.

Russians have same rights as estonians. if they dont have same sucsess or opportunities, its becouse they are stupid - they are stupid to understand that knowing language opens many doors, haveing stupid arrogant additude that russians are kings of world. Its not only in Estonia, in other countries as well they doesnt learn language and doesnt try to be part of local society. Did you know that 60% of criminal acts in Estonia is being done by russians, though theres 30% of them. To achive some things in other county you have to work for it, complaining and being arrogant doesnt get you anywhere.
Estonians doesnt respect russians who doesnt respect Estonia and estonians. Learning laguage is good example of respect, many have lived here like 30 years but know only few words. Why should we respect someone who doesnt respect us.

yeah, that's what I've been talking about too.

Exclamation knowing estonian will open many doors to any russian living here.
Exclamation but if you take an arrogant attitude and totally ignore the option to learn the language, many doors would be closed aswell.
that's simple and self-evident.

if you don't want to learn estonian, becouse you are "a russian".. well that's your choice and your problem.. we can't really help you if you have such a childish and arrogant attitude towards the local society..

Exclamation no-one forces you to live here in Estonia when you hate us and our beautiful country so much.


Last edited by on Sun May 20, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Risto

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Krissukristel wrote:
Voodoo wrote:
what language police you are talking about.
Thats what I was wondering about.
Never heard of such a thing.
If some estonian has figured out what he means by this, can you please tell me estonian expression for it.

Keeleinspektsioon?
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:12 pm

DerDieDas wrote:

I have understand what Helena wanted to tell me. She wanted to find an excusion for the hate against the Russian minority. And this way of thinking IS pointless.

no, you clearly have not understood what helena was trying to tell you.
helena had nothing related to hate against russians in her post.


DerDieDas wrote:

consequences of this hate:

less jobs
less payment
less contact
...

as I and many others have stated earlier.. those things depend 90% on your own personal choices in estonia.

Exclamation less jobs? if you speak only russian, estonian company will have a big trouble with communicating you doesn't it? so it will hire an estonian speaking estonia instead.
that's nothing about hate..
Exclamation estonian company will not diss you becouse youre a russian, but if you only speak russian, many doors will be closed for you.

Exclamation less contact??? use your brains, why cant an estonian speaking estonian communicate with a russian speaking only russian??? you try to tell us that every estonian should learn russian so that russian minority would have a better chance to get a job?
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:15 pm

Risto wrote:
Krissukristel wrote:
Voodoo wrote:
what language police you are talking about.
Thats what I was wondering about.
Never heard of such a thing.
If some estonian has figured out what he means by this, can you please tell me estonian expression for it.

Keeleinspektsioon?

Shocked
and its such a shoking thing?
ahh, Languageinspection. Nothing to do with police.
somehow I dont think I can become russian citizen without speaking russian
or can I?
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:35 pm

If I go to Russia, I can't get a job if I don't speak russian.
If I go to England, I can't get a job if I don't speak english.
If I go to Spain and I get a job at a tourist resort as a warehouse worker or whoever and I don't speak spanish, I don't expect to be treated equal to the local workers.

And I only hate russians who hate Estonia, estonian and estonians.

And yup, there is no "speaking police", it's language inspeciton. Pretty normal thing imo.

The russian minority has about 4 parties, none gets more than 1% of total votes. They all put together don't get 1% of the votes! I would blame themselves.

DerDieDas wrote:
1. You shouldn´t forget, that 30% of this guys who had "stealed vodka" were native estonians.
2. No countries have such silly thing like a "language police"..discrimination pure.
3. No counries have produced so many non-citicens by themself. non-citicen = discrimination pure.
4. The political contact with the Russian minority is miserable.
5. The integration policy is a joke.
1. 30% of who were arrested (=who were there at the time) were Estonians. Not 30% of who were the looters. Ofcourse there were estonians looting there and IMO they are assholes. Every country has some. But I don't think 30% of the looters were estonians.
2. Read above.
3. They were produced with the collapse of the SSSR. They were free to go back to Russia, where they or their ancestors were from.
4. Read above again
5. The integration can't be one-sided. The Russians have to want it themselves also.
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 2:54 pm

Hypno wrote:
If I go to Russia, I can't get a job if I don't speak russian.
If I go to England, I can't get a job if I don't speak english.
If I go to Spain and I get a job at a tourist resort as a warehouse worker or whoever and I don't speak spanish, I don't expect to be treated equal to the local workers.

3. They were produced with the collapse of the SSSR. They were free to go back to Russia, where they or their ancestors were from.

good points here Exclamation

and as I have told before too.. I was born in estonia but moved in finland.. I learned the language and got "integrated" to finnish society, I have a finnish citizenship. I finished "gymnasium/high school" (w/e its called) few months ago (in finnish) and now got a job with not maybe the best pay but I get along well, I can buy almost everything I need (or want) at the moment Smile I have finnish, estonian and russian friends here. I speak fluently estonian, finnish and english and some swedish and deutch aswell Smile knowing these languages here has opened me many doors in both school and work world Smile

Exclamation if I would have taken an arrogant and ignoring attitude against finns and finland, I wouldnt have a job. nor would I have ever got past the "base education" (1-6 or 9 classes). I wouldnt have my citizenship nor a right to have a free education up to university, free health care etc... I wouldnt have finnish friends.. I would only speak estonian.

that attitude would close many many many doors and would make life so much more difficult for me here, that it would be easier to move back to estonia.
that's what russians are doing in estonia atm. hope you got my point now.
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DerDieDas



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 3:41 pm

I have read enough Estonian comments to say, that you (Estonians), should´t wondering about some "russian" riots.

With a such attitude, your country can forget the integration for a long time.

No one will follow, if you not understand your minorities and talk always about OUR country. No, my friends, it isn´t only YOUR country.

You support nationalistic and rassistic way of thinking, and you all should really think about it.
And I say this as an German guy.


Have fun with hating Russians! cheers
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 3:46 pm

It seems you didn't read any posts above ^^. What hating?

Quote :
No one will follow, if you not understand your minorities and talk always about OUR country. No, my friends, it isn´t only YOUR country.

You support nationalistic and rassistic way of thinking, and you all should really think about it. And I say this as an German guy.

Actually it is our country, and everyone who wants citizenship must be loyal to Estonia. So, everyone who has citizenship, are actually Estonians, we don't take them like Russians any more.

We must keep our country and culture, it is nationalistic? hell yeah.
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 3:52 pm

DerDieDas you are russian living in germany?
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DerDieDas



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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 4:19 pm

Voodoo wrote:
DerDieDas you are russian living in germany?

I´m an ethnic German.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 4:19 pm

whats your age? you live in Hannover? Smile

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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 4:35 pm

so you think thats intelligent acting, liveing in another country, not learning language and not trying to be a part of society?
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 5:27 pm

Voodoo wrote:
so you think thats intelligent acting, liveing in another country, not learning language and not trying to be a part of society?

isn't that the motto of most of the russians living outside Russia?
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 5:32 pm

DerDieDas wrote:
I have read enough Estonian comments to say, that you (Estonians), should´t wondering about some "russian" riots.

With a such attitude, your country can forget the integration for a long time.

No one will follow, if you not understand your minorities and talk always about OUR country. No, my friends, it isn´t only YOUR country.

You support nationalistic and rassistic way of thinking, and you all should really think about it.
And I say this as an German guy.


Have fun with hating Russians! cheers

we are racists?

so you basically say, that all estonians should learn russian that our minority could live better?

whose country Estonia is then, russians'?????

man, read the previous posts.. there was no hate in any of those. I just stated my opinions, you state yours. no hate. but your ideas sound a lot more paradoxal than ours. you say everything should be handed to russians with golden plates. we say that estonia's russians should learn our language for example, to make life alot easier.

read my post where I told how I integrated to finland. maybe then you understand.
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 5:34 pm

DerDieDas wrote:
Voodoo wrote:
DerDieDas you are russian living in germany?

I´m an ethnic German.

so you live in Germany? do you speak deutch then?
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 8:37 pm

DerDieDas wrote:
Voodoo wrote:
DerDieDas you are russian living in germany?

I´m an ethnic German.
You are a Russian (I guess you are born in Russia), who's ethnic German (your parents/grandparents/whatever are from Germany), living in Germany?

If everything I guessed above is true, then here's the deal: You get back to Germany, but don't know a word of the language and kinda wish that Russia would still rule over (part of) Germany. Do you expect equal rights with the locals?
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vJ

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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 8:50 pm

Hypno wrote:
DerDieDas wrote:
Voodoo wrote:
DerDieDas you are russian living in germany?

I´m an ethnic German.
You are a Russian (I guess you are born in Russia), who's ethnic German (your parents/grandparents/whatever are from Germany), living in Germany?

If everything I guessed above is true, then here's the deal: You get back to Germany, but don't know a word of the language and kinda wish that Russia would still rule over (part of) Germany. Do you expect equal rights with the locals?

yeah, living at old DDR area? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Naši   Sun May 20, 2007 8:56 pm

i agree, every post DerDieDas has done have been against estonia and estonians, typical russians point of view. Btw he has lost all argumentations.
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