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 Language police in Estonia

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DerDieDas



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PostSubject: Language police in Estonia   Thu May 17, 2007 10:04 pm

What do you think about it?

Amnesty International:
http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGEUR510012007
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LPF



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 5:01 pm

Amnesty International?
i hear it first time Embarassed Laughing geek
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 5:41 pm

In Soviet times our language was almost destroyed, now we have to keep it. Though, all that English influence is almost same bad. (slang)
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 5:45 pm

I want to tell you one important thing. Everybody seems to have forgotten about it here. Some Estonians say that Russians can go to “their beloved Russia” if they don’t like something here. Well, how do you think they can do it? They have lived in Estonia all their lives, they’ve made it their home, they’ve got kids and friends there. How can they move anywhere? Some of them don’t speak Estonian? Not good, but I am sure that young Russians who were born and grew up in Estonia can speak Estonian fluently. Am I wrong? As for the elders… they lived in another country, things were different then, there’s no need to force them to study the language… Maybe you could just forgive them for not knowing your language. They are no longer occupants or something. They are … Rustonians ;-)

There must be a way out of this.

It really breaks my heart people… I am half Russian, half… it’s unimportant... I am very close to Estonians ethnically. But I live in Russia and I do love this country, Russian is my native language…

I am so upset…
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 5:50 pm

Quote :
Not good, but I am sure that young Russians who were born and grew up in Estonia can speak Estonian fluently. Am I wrong

Well, some of them... don't even think about learning Estonian No . But some even go to Estonian school, though their language isn't influent. ( Very Happy ) .
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 5:52 pm

Didn't have time to read trough all, but all I found that the language inspection here may force people who don't speak Estonian well enough to learn it or quit the job. (correct me if I'm wrong here)

I can't see what's wrong with that. When I was younger, about 10 I lost my wallet while paying at a kiosk in Tallinn. I asked the seller in Estonian if she has seen my wallet and she didn't understand me. Like wtf I go to a shop in Estonia and I can't communicate with the personel there in Estonian? That's friggin stupid if you ask me.

And as much as I have visited Tallinn, the language inspection is really not doing good enough job. There are a LOT of people on jobs that need communication with clients, who can't speak more than three words in Estonian. Nonsense.
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 6:04 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
I want to tell you one important thing. Everybody seems to have forgotten about it here. Some Estonians say that Russians can go to “their beloved Russia” if they don’t like something here. Well, how do you think they can do it? They have lived in Estonia all their lives, they’ve made it their home, they’ve got kids and friends there. How can they move anywhere? Some of them don’t speak Estonian? Not good, but I am sure that young Russians who were born and grew up in Estonia can speak Estonian fluently. Am I wrong? As for the elders… they lived in another country, things were different then, there’s no need to force them to study the language… Maybe you could just forgive them for not knowing your language. They are no longer occupants or something. They are … Rustonians ;-)

There must be a way out of this.

It really breaks my heart people… I am half Russian, half… it’s unimportant... I am very close to Estonians ethnically. But I live in Russia and I do love this country, Russian is my native language…

I am so upset…

I understand that you are worried.
Well, I for example don't usually usually tell Russians to "return their beloved Russia". Of course Russians may live here. And of course, if they want to do this, they must be loyal to the country. Some of them, though, really don't seem to be loyal to Estonia because in April they ran about the streets with Russian flags, burned Estonian ones and screamed "Rossija! Rossija!" (I saw and heard it myself.)

I also understand that elder people (60-70 y/o) can't learn languages easily and I accept them speaking Russian.

On the other hand I would like to go shop and be able to talk to the shopkeeper in Estonian (as we live in Estonia).

And as about the younger generation... I dare say that most of them can't speak Estonian at all. Of course there are exceptions.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 7:41 pm

You know what they say, if you want to change the world, change yourself. I can't make anyone of you love Russia, I can't make anyone love Estonia here, but there is something I can do... I will try to study estonian. But studying a foreign language is quite a challenge so if anyone can help me to start out... :-)) How to say Hello in estonian?
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Fri May 18, 2007 8:40 pm

Hallo=tere

NowhereMan you are a bit incorrect.

Quote :
"Russians can go to “their beloved Russia” if they don’t like something here"

We may say it but not just because "they don’t like something here". If person doesn’t learn estonian, because hes arrogant, saying im russian from big russia, fuck Estonia with its language. Or they are like those rioters, destroying and screaming "russia, russia". Some hope that Russia would occupy Estonia again. I mean if person doesnt respect country and people he lives in then we dont have any respect for them also.

Yes, it may have happened that someone said for example if you don’t like government, go to russia but this is just emotional or stupid acting. I think almost all estonians would agree with me. I think there should be more people in Estonia, as well foreign people, but not people who are assholes to estonians.
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patrickg



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 6:14 am

I have to say, I'm really disappointed in Amnesty International for this one. I would have thought that they would understand the plight of a culture and people that faced so many attempts at extinction...That said, I also want to say that I agree with Estonia. There is no risk of the world losing Russian, but if Russian were given equal status with Estonian, Estonian would be in a bit of trouble. I'm glad that the Estonians are working to preserve their language (which I'm trying to learn right now...it's hard..especially that õ letter:P). It's so soft, unique, and beautiful. From my experience, it is certainly the case that Estonians are willing to help people learn their language:D I have been received wonderfully by several Estonians who have been not only willing but eager to teach me their wonderful language. Anyway, I wish Estonia the best of luck in preserving its beautiful culture, and I hope that organizations like Amnesty International can understand the situation better in the future.
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terker



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 10:25 am

**


Last edited by on Sun May 27, 2007 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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3 Alarms

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 4:11 pm

well they have had 16 years to learn estonian language, i have seen how foreigen people learn estonian fast with couple month. not perfect speaking but they are able to do things what needed every day.
No one order rusians to speak estonian in their homes and between eatchother and here estonia are russian schools wich are supported by goverment. What kind other european country has such thing yes they have private scools who do it but not suported by goverment.

NowhereMan wrote:
I want to tell you one important thing. Everybody seems to have forgotten about it here. Some Estonians say that Russians can go to “their beloved Russia” if they don’t like something here. Well, how do you think they can do it? They have lived in Estonia all their lives, they’ve made it their home, they’ve got kids and friends there.

but those kids friends and family wont stop them going other countries in europe.

NowhereMan wrote:
Not good, but I am sure that young Russians who were born and grew up in Estonia can speak Estonian fluently. Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong. Most cant speak estonian language fluently and many dont speak it at all. It is sad but truth.
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 4:26 pm

i've said it already once somewhere here.
There are alot of russian teens who speak estonian more-or-less.
But there are also alot of russian teens who rather learn english then estonian. nothing wronge with english, but if you live in Estonia estonian languague should come first.
an example, my dad works in a constructionbusiness. alot of russians there and I dare to say mostly he uses russian with them or else it would be difficult to communicate with them.
but one of those younge boys said his sister is dating a Finnish man, and maybe he should also start learning finnish to talk to him.
notice, he dont speak a word estonian, and obviesly languagues are not difficult for him if hes willing to study one. but he just dont want to.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 4:51 pm

Quote :
notice, he dont speak a word estonian, and obviesly languagues are not difficult for him if hes willing to study one. but he just dont want to.

If they really needed to know the language they would have learned it long time ago. But seems like it's not necesary... And you can't just force them... Question Question Question Question
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 4:57 pm

Yes thats part of problem, they can survive without knowing estonian but it couses problems to them and society


Last edited by on Tue May 22, 2007 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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patrickg



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 5:23 pm

Krissukristel wrote:

but one of those younge boys said his sister is dating a Finnish man, and maybe he should also start learning finnish to talk to him.
notice, he dont speak a word estonian, and obviesly languagues are not difficult for him if hes willing to study one. but he just dont want to.
Krissu, that's quite sad Sad . It just shows that people like him have no respect for the culture they live in.
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3 Alarms

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 5:31 pm

NowhereMan wrote:


If they really needed to know the language they would have learned it long time ago. But seems like it's not necesary... And you can't just force them... Question Question Question Question

They start cry and call it violation against human right if they cant speak russian in estonia with all people. And demanding them speak estonian if they work places where they have to speak with estonians is first step to make need to learn estonian language. They cant work if they cant speak.

I think estonians are to polite for others, tey try speak language what foreigen people speak. I doubt that i can handle with english or german language in russia but it is possible in estonia. If we start act as russian speak only estonian and demand that they speak it too then it will be vital for them. Then they have need for it but isnt it forcing? Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 5:55 pm

I have a friend who came to Russia from Moldova. His elder brother had come to Russia 2 years before and spoke very good russian, but this guy didn't know russian at all. We all tried to help him to learn the language and after a few months he got much better, but still wasnt't good enough to work at jobs that require good communication skills. Somehow he managed to work here with so little russian for more than a year, but then he said it was too hard for him to live here, for he couldn't really understand the culture, and russian was too difficult for him. he even had problems filling in forms in a bank. So he decided to return to Kishinev. He now lives there quite happily.
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whatever



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 9:33 pm

If I remember correctly then Amnesty International leader is Russian. And this is quite funny that these kind of organization only dare to point out something for the little countries not for big countries, who get more something to press on their power to little ones.
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 9:38 pm

lala
nevertheless you can't blame russians in everything
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Tue May 22, 2007 10:37 pm

3 Alarms wrote:
well they have had 16 years to learn estonian language, i have seen how foreigen people learn estonian fast with couple month. not perfect speaking but they are able to do things what needed every day.
We had an english teacher from the USA in our school last year and also this year. He learned to speak Estonian in about a year with, even tho with a strange accent and not perfectly, but really well for a foreigner.
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svybski



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:43 pm

Hypno wrote:
3 Alarms wrote:
well they have had 16 years to learn estonian language, i have seen how foreigen people learn estonian fast with couple month. not perfect speaking but they are able to do things what needed every day.
We had an english teacher from the USA in our school last year and also this year. He learned to speak Estonian in about a year with, even tho with a strange accent and not perfectly, but really well for a foreigner.

Strange but im eager to learn estonian eventhough i dont even live there...

why someone do not want learn the main language of the country? scratch beats me. you dont need to be genius to understand that if you can speak languages, you have an competitive advantage over those who cannot speak estonian.


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svybski



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PostSubject: quit shopping in rustonian :P go to estonian-only shops!! :D   Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:46 pm

Helena wrote:

On the other hand I would like to go shop and be able to talk to the shopkeeper in Estonian (as we live in Estonia).


btw, we have had in Finland "swedish-only" shops (drugstores or whatever, the place where you do your shoppings..) so many years in certain regions where the swedish is majority language. Ahvenanmaa (Åland) is region where you dont benefit at all from your finnish skills, everything is in swedish because the locals have their own opinions... all im saying that dont worry if shop keeper do not speak your language!! just quit shopping there (in rustonian shops Wink ) anymore....

These "language wars" (metaphorically speaking of course. that was the real term used, though) have very long historical roots starting from 30s in Finland. Estonia might experience the same.

It is kind of funny that large part of swedish population do not want to learn finnish. They all know finnish, but sometimes they speak really bad finnish. They just dont want to give up and thats ok for me. it is funny because afterall originally it was the swedish speaking population who most eagerly wanted our independence... part of strong culture is the language of course. And they for some reason need that swedish Very Happy
Maybe these old-russians or rustonians of yours need their for "some reason" also!! lol!

personally I do not understand why loving one language means for some people sometimes that they do not want to learn some another language (i.e. the majority language). Maybe it would hurt their identity?

But I do not think that rustonians will ever learn estonian language (at least the majority of those will not achieve good skill level of the language) unless they get mixed entirely to the estonian majority population. It is more likely that they invent their own sub-cultural identity and you will be communicating in english with eachother... sad.. pale
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:04 pm

-


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volmer



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PostSubject: Re: Language police in Estonia   Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:23 pm

International Hate wrote:
so why should you learn Estonian?
Simple:
Estonian constitution:
EVERY ESTONIAN CITIZEN SPEAKS ESTONIAN AS THEIR MOTHER LANGUAGE.

It doesn't say has to, or should. It says that they do. Meaning, if you don't speak the language, you might as well set your passport on fire and find yourself a new citizenship somewhere else.
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