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 About human rights in Estonia

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LPF



Number of posts : 76
Registration date : 2007-05-16

PostSubject: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 5:51 pm

language
jobs
cultural and historical discrimination
innocent russians being beaten in the streets of Tallinn
...
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 6:37 pm

lol

1. Isnt it normal to know language if you live in another country? Its for your own good. There are russians who live here like 30 years, know only few words, people from other countries learn language in half year and become fastly part of society.
2. Why should estonian company manager hire worker who doesnt understand language and would disturb company with it. ofcourse he hiers estonian instead. you get only jobs where language isnt important. your own fault being arrgogant: "im from big russia i dont learn other languages".
3. what are you haveing in mind?
4. Innocent? you meant those ones who destroy, steal, throw police with stones? lol!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYZUO9Uj23M

One recommendation to you: learn language, you get job what you deserve maybe even become rich, you will find out that estonians are friendly and respect you for being part of society, if you are intelligent enogh you could even get in government to make russians and estonians life better, you could read estonian media so you would understand, what is going on in estonia.


Last edited by on Sun May 20, 2007 7:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 6:42 pm

Quote :
2. Why should estonian company manager hire worker who doesnt understand language and would disturb company with it. ofcourse he hiers estonian instead.
...or another russian who speaks estonian.

but for your information, it isn't just one way street, that russians need to learn estonian to get a certain job. there are more and more jobs where both languages are needed and estonian not knowing russian won't get hired (personal experience Embarassed )
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 8:42 pm

LPF wrote:
innocent russians being beaten in the streets of Tallinn
I got like two words for you: Kopli and Lasnamäe.

I don't know about it right now, but a few years ago, when you walked in those parts of the city alone after the sun had set (or just late in the summer) you had to be damn lucky not to get robbed naked+beaten into a coma/near it by ethnic Russians there. And sometimes even out of those parts of the city. Most of the smaller crimes like robberies, bag runs, muggings, are done by ethnic Russians... That's not prejudice, those are the facts. You can ask about anyone living in Tallinn about it.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 9:27 pm

Hypno wrote:
LPF wrote:
innocent russians being beaten in the streets of Tallinn
I got like two words for you: Kopli and Lasnamäe.

I don't know about it right now, but a few years ago, when you walked in those parts of the city alone after the sun had set (or just late in the summer) you had to be damn lucky not to get robbed naked+beaten into a coma/near it by ethnic Russians there. And sometimes even out of those parts of the city. Most of the smaller crimes like robberies, bag runs, muggings, are done by ethnic Russians... That's not prejudice, those are the facts. You can ask about anyone living in Tallinn about it.

Hmm, wonder why it reminds me to each comments I've heard from many other kind of people about how aggressive Russians are in general.
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Risto

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 9:39 pm

You have to be kidding right? In Russia it's jolly good with human rights?
First look inside your country before accusing other countries. What a clown...
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 9:41 pm

Kiskun wrote:
Hmm, wonder why it reminds me to each comments I've heard from many other kind of people about how aggressive Russians are in general.

Fu***ng hell! just for a second I think - at last, we've sorted the things out... and then again someone comes out with a rasist statement Crying or Very sad

P.S. IMO. This topic dublicates "Language police in Estonia" and other topic's content.
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LPF



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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 9:42 pm

Voodoo wrote:

3. what are you haveing in mind?

i don't know Smile what i know is that they are discriminated in every way Very Happy Very Happy

Voodoo wrote:

4. Innocent? you meant those ones who destroy, steal, throw police with stones? lol!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYZUO9Uj23M

yep, that's the ones Very Happy

/P.S. IMO. This topic dublicates "Language police in Estonia" and other topic's content./ under the topic Nashi some people started to speak about the problems about estonia Evil or Very Mad we need more topics
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Sun May 20, 2007 9:59 pm

make more topics then all can make topics, its democratic forum Smile

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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 8:10 am

Quote :
innocent russians being beaten in the streets of Tallinn

They weren't innocent. Or should we allow Russians to everything they want, and if we don't, then it's "discrimination"? More it seems that Estonians are themselves discriminated here, still, though CCCP is over ^^.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 9:43 am

NowhereMan wrote:
Kiskun wrote:
Hmm, wonder why it reminds me to each comments I've heard from many other kind of people about how aggressive Russians are in general.

Fu***ng hell! just for a second I think - at last, we've sorted the things out... and then again someone comes out with a rasist statement Crying or Very sad
BAAAH! Learn to read! He said that my reply reminded him of how people were talking about how Russians were agressive in general!!! Not that he thinks Russians are agressive in general!!! REMIND does not equal STATE
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 10:13 am

Peace, guys Very Happy

Generally Russians are quite friendly, though not then when politic, nationality or history are discussed
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 12:31 pm

yea, peace, NowhereMan is a deasent member sunny
bounce
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 2:48 pm

Quote :
BAAAH! Learn to read! He said that my reply reminded him of how people were talking about how Russians were agressive in general!!! Not that he thinks Russians are agressive in general!!!

I am learning. He states that it reminds him of how people were talking of how... brrr... Relax. You always sound so nervous.

As for aggressive Russians… hm

If you step on someone’s foot in the bus in London and in Moscow, the reaction will be very different ;-)) I’ve tried that Smile we have to learn to be polite.

And I know one very aggressive dude. Somebody! abuse his rights, please. He's such an idiot!

Now seriously. For example, I am a Russian born in Estonia, I grew up here but I don’t speak Estonian. Will I get Estonian passport? If so, it’s okay. But if they don’t give the citizenship, they abuse my rights. ‘Cause if was born and grew up in the country I have a right to be a citizen of this country even if I can’t speak at all.
I don’t know very much about it, so please explain me how it works in Estonia.
Actually I didn’t take an interest in Estonia before that story with monuments…
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 2:59 pm

if you are born in Estonia, but your nationality is British (for example) you are not automatical citizen. You have to show you deserve it by speaking estonian, and knowing our history.

I think it is right becose I can not imagine beeng born in norway, and not speaking that languague. Even If I would go to work In norway for few months I would already try my best before leaving to know some level their languague. Therefor it is frankly unbeliveble some ppl have lived here 50-60 years and they dont speak estonian. some ppl born here (not all!) rather learn english then estonian. There is nothing wronge with learning other languages as well, but shouldn't you first try to learn the languaget of the place you live in?
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 3:05 pm

He would have to do language exam, constitutional law exam and must not be criminally punished
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matrixx



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Localisation : Estonia
Registration date : 2007-05-21

PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 3:08 pm

Krissukristel wrote:
if you are born in Estonia, but your nationality is British (for example) you are not automatical citizen. You have to show you deserve it by speaking estonian, and knowing our history.

I must correct you - one will get automatically Estonian citizenship when born, if one of his parents has Estonian citizenship. This criteria of speaking Estonian and knowing history only applies when you have no citizenship or have some other country's citizenship and want to change it to Estonian - that usually means that the one applying for citizenship is an adult.
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Krissukristel

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 3:10 pm

matrixx wrote:
Krissukristel wrote:
if you are born in Estonia, but your nationality is British (for example) you are not automatical citizen. You have to show you deserve it by speaking estonian, and knowing our history.

I must correct you - one will get automatically Estonian citizenship when born, if one of his parents has Estonian citizenship. This criteria of speaking Estonian and knowing history only applies when you have no citizenship or have some other country's citizenship and want to change it to Estonian - that usually means that the one applying for citizenship is an adult.
thx, I didn't know that.

Voodoo wrote:
must not be criminally punished
didn't know that either
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 3:22 pm

according what matrixx said, lookes fair to me.
I believe its similar as in most of other countries.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 4:36 pm

As of Estonian constitutional law paragraph 8, section one- 'Every child, who has atleast one parent with Estonian citizenship has the right to Estonian citizenship.' And paragraph 9, section one- 'All rights, freedoms and duties apply equally to both Estonian citizens as to citizens of other countries and people without citizenship in Estonia.'
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 5:00 pm

If anyone knows russian read this discussion http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/ws/thread.jspa?threadID=6365

I don't know who's right or wrong... I am a bit confused about all this...
Maybe I'll visit Estonia someday and see what's going on there Smile
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Voodoo

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 5:05 pm

i cant read it, would you translate a bit?
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lendoblikas



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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 5:21 pm

NowhereMan wrote:

Now seriously. For example, I am a Russian born in Estonia, I grew up here but I don’t speak Estonian. Will I get Estonian passport? If so, it’s okay. But if they don’t give the citizenship, they abuse my rights. ‘Cause if was born and grew up in the country I have a right to be a citizen of this country even if I can’t speak at all.
I don’t know very much about it, so please explain me how it works in Estonia.
Actually I didn’t take an interest in Estonia before that story with monuments…

In Estonia it is the ius sanguis system, not ius solis, as in usa. In most countries they have the ius sanguis system, which means that citizenship is granted if you are born as a child of two citizens or through naturalization- you learn the language and the history ant pass a test. It is to protect the nations culture, language and history. See, if we would let Russians get the citizenship without knowing Estonian, we would risk being abolished from the face of the earth, because only one million people speak Estonian, but nearly a billion speaks Russian. I advise you to check out the laws of Iceland for example, they have one of the harshest measures of protecting their nationality (there is only 300 000 of them). We are small, we need to protect ourselves. Russians as part of big nation believe that anyone who is small has no right to exist at all.

Also I would like to remind you why and how you were born in Estonia. This land here has belonged to Estonians for over 10 000 years. 60 years ago Russia annexed Estonia (I say Russia, because Russia declares that it is the official successor of the Soviet Union). Then in the 1960.-s and 1970.-s they started deporting Russian workers here. These people came here with the thought of abolishing our culture and language, there is even an official term for it: to russify. Before the war, by the way, Estonia was a very blooming and quite wealthy little democratic European country. If there had not been the occupation (Russians took all the successful Estonian farmers and businessmen to GULAG, too, by the way) we would be where Finland is now. And also, think about the fact than whenever Estonia has become independent of Russia, we have started blooming economically. Now Estonians have built a well-developing democratic coutry with European values. Russians who live here enjoy the fruits, but have not done anything themselves (like learn the language, get a job, build a better economy for us all), instead they are unoccupyed and receive support money from our government. Well, at least they could be qiuet then (I dont even ask them to be thankful), because in the beloved Rossija they would starve if they didn't work, beacause there the people are so poor that there is not even any point in stealing and robbing.

Some people in this forum say that Soviet Union was democratic because Estonians were allowed to speak Estonian in their homes, beacuse in the leading bodies of factories and etc it was allowed that one person was Estonian and because Estonians were allowed to have school education in Estonian. These are their reasons to prove that Estonia was not suppressed. Now, think, what if Russia annexed Sweden for example. And the laws would be that in every entrprise there has to be an ethnic Russian in the governing body, that all the Swedish people have to learn Russian, that all the official paperwork can only be in Russian. You would say that it is not oppressive?

I think that the Russians had a right to speak about discrimination here, if it was their historic area. But it is not. Before the WW2 there were almost no Russians here. They came here in the 60.-s and 70.-s to russify Estonia.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 5:39 pm

lookes like another smart member, i hope you stay Razz

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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: About human rights in Estonia   Mon May 21, 2007 6:52 pm

Tere lendoblikas Smile

Quote :
nearly a billion speaks Russian
You’re a little bit exaggerating, but I understand what you mean. .

Quote :
Also I would like to remind you why and how you were born in Estonia…
You see, it’s not those people’s fault that their parents were sent to Estonia, so try to understand them as well.
(i'm glad I don't have this problem myself, but since I like to study languages and cultures, and if it is really just a few tests, I'm sure I would get est-n citizenship easily Smile )

Quote :
because in the beloved Rossija they would starve if they didn't work, beacause there the people are so poor that there is not even any point in stealing and robbing.
Hehe… you’re a bit wrong here ;-)

Well, this is your land and you should decide, but it’s not normal that there are so many people in your country are not integrated in life of the Estonian society. I think this situation is unique; it is so complicated...
But I'm sure... we can work it out Laughing
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