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 Mart Laar

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:38 pm

What is general opinion about him in Estonia? In Poland, Laar is very well known and respected among economical liberals. He is credited for successful transition period in Estonia. Even his book “Estonian miracle” was translated to Polish. He is still active in politics?
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:26 pm

I guess he's pretty respected here also. I do like him personally... I even read his blog and he even answered one of my comments Very Happy Very Happy

Blog in Estonian
Blog in English
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:17 pm

Thanks for this link to English language blog, I see that he answer regularly. I will visit this website from time to time. Actually he is concentrated on Russia, what a surprise! lol!
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:51 pm

Could you tell me about his work particularly?
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:16 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mart_Laar has rather satisfying overview. I haven't read it yet myself but I will once I get the chance.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:18 pm

Hypno wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mart_Laar has rather satisfying overview. I haven't read it yet myself but I will once I get the chance.

Tänan
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:29 am

I personally don't like him very much. He is definitely a gifted historian, but I didn't like that he privatized most of the country's companies, for example the Estonian Railways (which has fortunately bought back by now).

On the other hand, I know many Estonians who quite like him.
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Earthland



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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:50 am

Laar is quite idiot... better than Savisaar, but I still think he doesn't fit for politician, ....
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LPF



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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:24 am

Laar is the best...
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:53 pm

As I said, I generally don't like him because of his former policy very much but on the other hand - he doesn't seem to bet that corrupted as the most of our politicians.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:00 pm

The railroad thing sucked, but his reforms really boosted Estonias economy to what it is today. We are among the top ex-SU countries.

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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:26 pm

Why are you saying that privatization of railways was wrong? Where problem lies?
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:58 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Why are you saying that privatization of railways was wrong? Where problem lies?

It is not always good to sell the whole country and find that you have nothing which is yours, and you pay fees and everything for foreigners, and your own state cannot give social benefits, because it has nothing to make profit of.
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whatever



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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:07 am

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Why are you saying that privatization of railways was wrong? Where problem lies?

Actually the problem came up now when we joined EU, since railroad belonged to a private company then it wasn't possible to start rebuild railroad tracks so we could join into common network in EU (money makes the wheels spin - politicians saw opportunity to make more money by buying back the railroad. I.e. great centrist party got some "own men" into railroad board, and they probably hope to get their hands on EU support money (what is meant for building tracks))
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:40 am

Kiskun wrote:


It is not always good to sell the whole country and find that you have nothing which is yours, and you pay fees and everything for foreigners
If foreign company would provide better service, I have nothing against. Most state owned companies remain state owned only because politicians have this great opportunity to give all posts in management boards to their incompetent and corrupt palls.

This foreign company pay taxes in your country anyway, there is no difference here.

Quote :
, and your own state cannot give social benefits, because it has nothing to make profit of.

Politician always offers these social benefits from our taxes, just bureaucratic mechanism take a big share of this. If they cannot, this only improve situation.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:45 am

whatever wrote:
Rzeczpospolita wrote:
Why are you saying that privatization of railways was wrong? Where problem lies?

Actually the problem came up now when we joined EU, since railroad belonged to a private company then it wasn't possible to start rebuild railroad tracks so we could join into common network in EU (money makes the wheels spin - politicians saw opportunity to make more money by buying back the railroad. I.e. great centrist party got some "own men" into railroad board, and they probably hope to get their hands on EU support money (what is meant for building tracks))

So it seems the problem is not privatization in general but rather bad privatization agreement. Modernization of the railroad tracks should be somehow included in this deal.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:11 pm

There is truth in that too, but we have really f*cked up this privatization thing here, people on both political sides are unsatisfied. In Hungary they want to sell the rairoads too, and we are so afraid, we have just had a 85% train-fee rise, which we can feel really much! If it gets into private hands, they would maybe raise something on its level, state of repair and so, but until many years, it would serve only upper-middle-class people.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:07 pm

After 1989, it was hard to prevent this svolochi from grabbing the country. Today, I think it would be good time to do it rightfully. Perhaps your perspective is a bit different because Hungarian government origin.

Of course I don’t really know how Hungarian railway company works. But if state owned, I suspect that effectiveness is on low level. So if they already raised tariffs then private company could even be helpful at this place. Their agenda would be simple, to make profits. Without clients there is no profits.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:46 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
After 1989, it was hard to prevent this svolochi from grabbing the country. Today, I think it would be good time to do it rightfully. Perhaps your perspective is a bit different because Hungarian government origin.

Of course I don’t really know how Hungarian railway company works. But if state owned, I suspect that effectiveness is on low level. So if they already raised tariffs then private company could even be helpful at this place. Their agenda would be simple, to make profits. Without clients there is no profits.

Yeah, first they should raise its level very much then raise tarifas maybe when our wages reach a certain percentage of modern states.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:06 pm

Kiskun wrote:

Yeah, first they should raise its level very much then raise tarifas maybe when our wages reach a certain percentage of modern states.

Your first demand should be included in privatization deal. If you can please write how much per km you pay in the lowest standard train. I would compare this with Polish reality.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:43 am

3 euro cents
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:56 am

So this is the same in Poland. Long distances 3 eurocents and for example inside of the Tricity conglomeration (short-distances) 6 eurocents.
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:36 pm

Sorry, I was wrong, I didn't take into consideration that I counted with my 50% student benifit, so it is its double, 6 eurocents per kilometre for the lowest standard train.
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:26 pm

With the privatization of Estonian railway there were also two other problems:
1) the privatizater didn't fulfill his contractual duties (didn't invest an agreed sum of money) which caused the bad situation of railway;
2) the railway is the most important source of profit for Estonia. Most of our transits is going by this way. If the privatizer would have had an idea to sell it, for example, to Gazprom or to Russia itself, it would've been quite bad.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Mart Laar   Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:51 pm

Helena wrote:
With the privatization of Estonian railway there were also two other problems:
1) the privatizater didn't fulfill his contractual duties (didn't invest an agreed sum of money) which caused the bad situation of railway;
Any consequences for investor?

Quote :
2) the railway is the most important source of profit for Estonia. Most of our transits is going by this way. If the privatizer would have had an idea to sell it, for example, to Gazprom or to Russia itself, it would've been quite bad.

Lithuania had similar problem with Mazeiku refinery, sold once to American company. Russians did them a lot of problems with supply and finally Yukos bought it. Later Putin jailed Khodorkovski and Polish state owned company Orlen bought Mazeiku. Now Lithuanians might be 100% sure that Russians don’t take over this strategic company. Of course Russians already causing problem with supplies but this is not enough to get rid of us Smile Conclussion is that you should resell this company to Polish railway monopoly, although they will turn the most profitable business in to dust but don’t sell to Russians for sure.
lol!
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