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 Vladimir Bukovsky

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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:55 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
This comment deserve my strong response! Very Happy

Quote :

Once in communist era Poland

An American, a Russian, and a Pole have agreed to meet at 6:00 pm at a certain pub to have a beer. The American and the Russian arrive on time. One hour later, the Pole shows up. "Sorry I'm late," says the Pole, "but I had to stand in line for one and a half hours to buy a ham."

"What's a line?" asks the American.

"What's a ham?" asks the Russian


lol! lol!

1:1 Wink
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:03 pm

My turn.


Quote :


- Could you tell me please, is it communism yet or it's gonna be worse?
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PdM

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:25 pm

Quote :
The cost of toilet paper is meaningless. If this toilet paper would be available all the time in many places, then there would not be any lines.
It was the matter of price. it is simple law of supply an demand. With highier prices, you can produce more products, and less people want to uy your products. With highier prices, there will be no lines. That is simple.

You see, the problem is that ppl here don't want anything to change.. In comunist era there were lines, ppl had money but the shops were empty and it was hard to buy anything. Now there are no lines*, shops are full, but the wallets are empty. What's the same? Ppl have same problem to buy now and in PRL. But now they don't see this.

exept in mediamarkt when they have sales...
ppl were waiting all night in a line...
just look:
http://arbiter.pl/zdjecie/8738
http://arbiter.pl/zdjecie/8752
http://arbiter.pl/galeria/MediaM1
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:19 pm

This is the point to find such balance to product and sell as much as possible. Toilet paper is needed in every house, so people would be ready to pay much more than it is really worth (production is cheap). Of course if you set price at some very high level they will prefer to use Trybuna Ludu (polish Pravda).

You highly exaggerate with your complains on today’s reality. If you are old enough you should remember how much effort you needed to sacrifice to buy something.
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:20 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
My turn.


Quote :


- Could you tell me please, is it communism yet or it's gonna be worse?

Also good, I must remember Smile
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:31 pm

-


Last edited by on Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:10 pm

In soviet time all the household-things were deficit because the USSR mainly concentrated on heavy industry and light industry didn't work as it should have been working. It was not a free economics and it cannot be compared with the economics we nowadays have.

And Nowhere Man, in many soviet countries the newspapers were quite widely used for this purpose Very Happy (as the propaganda was the only thing that wasn't deficit)
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:05 pm

Helena wrote:


And Nowhere Man, in many soviet countries the newspapers were quite widely used for this purpose Very Happy (as the propaganda was the only thing that wasn't deficit)

It's a pitty I can't use TV for that purpose. I watched TV (1 channel and "Russia" channel) last night and I was like... "hey guys, is it 2007 or 1967? Is it still Russia or I'm in the North Korea?" It all looks they.. I don't know.. those guys on tv.. do they actually believe in what they say and what they show us confused
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bobhatersfriend



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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:28 am



Last edited by bobhatersfriend on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:22 pm

bobhatersfriend wrote:
i don't see anything wrong with Russian TV

i use to watch it all the time with my grandma and like yeah, everything they said seemed to be right =)

we would know about stuff that was going on be4 the American's did ^.^

It's kinda strange but yeah.. sometimes it's ok and there are good programms on tv like Vladimir Pozner's "Vremena"... but sometimes there are such awful programms.. they just telling incredibly stupid things.. What channels do you watch?
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bobhatersfriend



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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:13 pm



Last edited by bobhatersfriend on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:39 pm

When I watch Polish or western TV stations or read newspapers I often wonder where this supposed civilized world is going to. You cannot explain everything by stupidity and ignorance. confused
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Helena

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:39 am

Channel 1 was the one Estonian Russians watched when we had the riots. But could you explain me, please, what do you consider to be stupid about it's programs? Because I guess I have it in my TV but unfortunately I can't understand Russian and therefore I can't understand what they are talking.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:59 am

Helena wrote:
Channel 1 was the one Estonian Russians watched when we had the riots. But could you explain me, please, what do you consider to be stupid about it's programs? Because I guess I have it in my TV but unfortunately I can't understand Russian and therefore I can't understand what they are talking.

They don't represent an alternative opinion usually (I must admit there are exceptions, but still..) They just keep telling that it is getting better and better (thanks to our president or to the party "Edinaya Rossia")... it's very annoying 'cause everybody knows what's really going on here.. And if something is wrong and they can't hide it anymore they just try to prove the goverment's innocence. So.. it's hard to explain... sometimes they show really stupid things like the one was last sunday..
There was a guy on TV, a young russian scientist who had lived in the US before, and he told that he couldn't work in the states anymore and decided to come to work to Russia 'cause everything is just great here, so many opportunities and stuff, he's got a very good lab and equipment here and blah-blah-blah... I guess that some young scientists in russia might be really doing well if they work for a good company or on some space projects or something,.. i dunno... but in general the situation with science is lousy and everybody knows that, at least it is much worse than in the US, so.. I just don't understand what the hell it was... what do they take us for??? confused

PS I didn't mention those talk-shows and soap operas... oh god..
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:28 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
Helena wrote:
Channel 1 was the one Estonian Russians watched when we had the riots. But could you explain me, please, what do you consider to be stupid about it's programs? Because I guess I have it in my TV but unfortunately I can't understand Russian and therefore I can't understand what they are talking.

They don't represent an alternative opinion usually (I must admit there are exceptions, but still..) They just keep telling that it is getting better and better (thanks to our president or to the party "Edinaya Rossia")... it's very annoying 'cause everybody knows what's really going on here.. And if something is wrong and they can't hide it anymore they just try to prove the goverment's innocence. So.. it's hard to explain... sometimes they show really stupid things like the one was last sunday..
There was a guy on TV, a young russian scientist who had lived in the US before, and he told that he couldn't work in the states anymore and decided to come to work to Russia 'cause everything is just great here, so many opportunities and stuff, he's got a very good lab and equipment here and blah-blah-blah... I guess that some young scientists in russia might be really doing well if they work for a good company or on some space projects or something,.. i dunno... but in general the situation with science is lousy and everybody knows that, at least it is much worse than in the US, so.. I just don't understand what the hell it was... what do they take us for??? confused

PS I didn't mention those talk-shows and soap operas... oh god..

Like Vednájá Násztyá? Very Happy My mother watches it when she can. She shits on the story, but likes the costumes in it.
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Communist Gipsy



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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:45 pm

-


Last edited by on Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:58 pm

International Hate wrote:
Kiskun wrote:

Like Vednájá Násztyá? Very Happy My mother watches it when she can. She shits on the story, but likes the costumes in it.
It's shown here too (Bednaya Nastya or sth)! I'm addicted Very Happy

LOL!

By the way, there was just a documentary about Litvinyenko on TV and Vladyimir Bukovsky talked a lot in it.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:20 pm

-


Last edited by on Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:21 am

Don't know which topic fits better for this article...
Anyway, Rzeczpospolita, this is for you. I've read the translation but I just wanna know your opinion.

http://przeglad-tygodnik.pl/index.php?site=wywiad&name=243

Best regards!
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Vladimir Bukovsky   Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:21 pm

I think that those fellows exaggerate a bit. For example I never heard about “monuments of Russian soldiers” but “monuments of red army”. What is more Polish public opinion don’t really bother with this issue because firstly you could hardly find any such monuments and secondary they have more important things to do.

This joke in the article is even funny but in fact ethnic jokes are not popular in Poland from quite long time. When I was a kid (15+ years ago) a series of jokes about Pole, Russian, German and devil was popular among youngsters. Today this is not the case and as an adult I see them rather childish.

However some people might link Soviets directly to Russians. I think this is also fault of Putin administration which is seen as a defender of Soviet past. This is partially true in my opinion, many Russians I have met, reject all bad things from Soviet past but gladly accept as “Russian” everything positive. The fact that Russian society overwhelmingly support former KGB agent with constantly making controversial statements about history must be noticed here. Russian state is considered to be unfriendly but not society itself. With Germans is otherwise, quite friendly government and arrogant society.

I think that if somebody else will run Russia with different philosophy of foreign policy our relations might quickly improve. I don’t remember any tensions when Yeltsyn was president of RF. Putin is trying to unite Russians searching for enemies outside, turning their attention from domestic problems. This is why Russia have bad bilateral relations nearly with all its neighbors.

About confusing Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, perhaps after collapse of SU some people raised in communist education system might have some problems. However this is not the case these days.

Russians should be aware that Russia might be criticized by Polish nationals from two completely different perspectives. Polish conservative society reacts only if Russian administration somehow works against Polish national interest or trying to completely rewrite history. Second group consist from post-communist apparatchiks turned to be the most European from all Europeans. Those people once served to Soviet regime and now found the new masters in Brussels, because they are genetically unable to live without masters. This group will constantly attack Russia (and Poland as well) as long as you will not worship liberal-left vision of the world. This group is represented mainly by daily “Gazeta Wyborcza”. Do me a favor and don’t consider their attacks as “Polish”.
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