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 Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy

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towito

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:41 am

I wonder what USA might say if Russia placed a missile defence system in Mexico and Cuba

USA coudn't say anything. In my opinion this action would be adeuqate for NMD. If Russia had more friendly politics past years towards neighbours mayba russian missiles were in Poland right now. But history is big problem for our country and our politicis (specially Russian) are not ready to fix it.

It's sure that if Russia would have the same kind of democracy that we or some else European country has, Russia would fall apart

Maybe it should happen, people would live more peacfully. Beside "soft power" is much more efficient than hard one. 90% of what is on polish tv it's USA production. affraid
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:42 pm

I agree with Helena, if Russia had normal democracy, the smaller nations would want their freedom so much, that in some parts of that huge land would fall into ethnic conflicts, besides all other problems which Russia wouldn't be able to solve.
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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:22 pm

I'm pretty sure that if Russia would REALLY want it and it would have democratic government etc etc etc, it would be possible to divide Russia to smaller nations peacefully... Somehow...

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towito

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:47 pm

I'm pretty sure that if Russia would REALLY want it and it would have democratic government etc etc etc, it would be possible to divide Russia to smaller nations peacefully... Somehow...

or something similar to Great Britain system - wow political fantasy Smile

Let's see what happen maybe NMD (national missile defence) will be only a plan. Exclamation
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Rzeczpospolita

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:27 pm

Hypno wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if Russia would REALLY want it and it would have democratic government etc etc etc, it would be possible to divide Russia to smaller nations peacefully... Somehow...

Same democracy doesn't solve the problem here, Spain and Basque country might be a primary example. This is rather political-economical calculation that would be deciding factor if open minded people would be decider of course.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:43 pm

Hypno wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if Russia would REALLY want it and it would have democratic government etc etc etc, it would be possible to divide Russia to smaller nations peacefully... Somehow...

Divide a country peacfully? how's that? and what for? brrr affraid
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bobhatersfriend



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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:49 am



Last edited by bobhatersfriend on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:32 pm

You may like it, but it doesn't mean the minorities like it. No
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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:15 pm

«Trayus» wrote:
You may like it, but it doesn't mean the minorities like it. No

Exactly. pig
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:21 pm

«Trayus» wrote:
You may like it, but it doesn't mean the minorities like it. No

No one in Russia wants the country to be divided. It's nonsense! Lots of people don't like that Moscow controls everything - regions lack of self-dependence. And Putin makes things even worse with his "vertical line of power" and other stupid ideas. A few years ago they united Perm area and Komi-Permian Autonomious region. There was a referendum but I'm sure that the results been juggled. That's a big problem I think, because people don't do what they want to do in their own city/area but just do what Moscow tells them to do... I believe that regions should be more independent; we must have a right to choose our own governors and mayors. But at the same time we all live in one common country and no one will be happy if it falls apart.
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:10 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
«Trayus» wrote:
You may like it, but it doesn't mean the minorities like it. No

No one in Russia wants the country to be divided. It's nonsense! Lots of people don't like that Moscow controls everything - regions lack of self-dependence. And Putin makes things even worse with his "vertical line of power" and other stupid ideas. A few years ago they united Perm area and Komi-Permian Autonomious region. There was a referendum but I'm sure that the results been juggled. That's a big problem I think, because people don't do what they want to do in their own city/area but just do what Moscow tells them to do... I believe that regions should be more independent; we must have a right to choose our own governors and mayors. But at the same time we all live in one common country and no one will be happy if it falls apart.

Yeah, they said so about happiness in the Soviet Republics before back in the USSR, ''Nobody want's it! What? What dividing?! Everybody is happy! Really!
Perhaps some won't be happy, but I'm 100% sure that there will be such people, especially in Chechenya.
I don't know any nationality wich wouldn't like to be independant, do You?
Besides, we for example, were quite happy too when we got free out of the Tsars or Russian soviet grasp Smile


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Kiskun

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:14 pm

There is also a famous pop-song made in Hungary when the last Soviet soldier left Hungary, called "Bye Bye Szása"
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Quote :
Yeah, they said so about happiness in the Soviet Republics before back in the USSR, ''Nobody want's it! What? What dividing?! Everybody is happy! Really!
Perhaps some won't be happy, but I'm 100% sure that there will be such people, especially in Chechenya.
I don't know any nationality wich wouldn't like to be independant, do You?
Besides, we for example, were quite happy too when we got free out of the Tsars grasp.

Looks like you don't understand me at all. If you seriously think that Russia = USSR(a prison of nations) then we've got nothing to talk about at all. And I can't imagine how can a small nation, that has been a part of the country for centuries, be indepent in the middle of this country?.. Imagine the independent state of Colorado confused
I am a "representative" of small nation. And I want to live in a big rich, thriving country. Yes, I want certain level of independence for my area (and I'm sure we can obtain it peacefully) but I don't want another crisis in my country! Dividing Russia is the most ridiculous thing one can imagine. Unfortunatly I've heard such things before. I've noticed some people really would be happy if Russia didn't exist Sad dream on!

As for my opinion about Chechnya, see "People Are Same Everywhere :: Political :: Estonia :: occupation or liberation" topic.
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:08 pm

I don't say today's Russia is the same USSR, but watcha say is pretty the same what the commies were saying about dividing USSR.
These nations obviously feel like to be Russian, than so be it, Russia conquered these lands before and made the people of these places surrender their soverinity. Bet you would say the same if Poland or should i say the "Vistulan Country" would be still part of Russia since the partition of the Commonwealth, that there's no need to be seperated because it's ages under our control. Be independent in the middle of country, why not, but who knows, there may be formed other independant republics wich would be right next to it, You can never know how much the country will be divided! But I would compare Russian situation to American, that's totally diffrent, these states were united by the people's will wich were living in there in general.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:31 pm

last thing we need now is the talks about dividing our country...

Divide and rule, eh? Good idea for some... hehe.. good friends of Russia. You probably don't realize it but when you say such things you just confirm Putin's words about mythical enemies surrounding our motherland and wanting to do it apart, destroy... lol Do you secretly work for KGB? lol!

Poland is Poland.. Russia is Russia... Life is life...
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towito

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:11 pm

It's sure that if Russia would have the same kind of democracy that we or some else European country has, Russia would fall apart. There are so many different little nations who would gladly found their own countries if the authorities would be too gentle. In my opinion, if Putin wants to keep Russia as one, his only chance is to act the way he does.

It's very handful excuse for Putin and dangerous, becouse it leads to solving problems by force.

But I would compare Russian situation to American, that's totally diffrent, these states were united by the people's will wich were living in there in general.

I agree, the most important is basement.

! Dividing Russia is the most ridiculous thing one can imagine. Unfortunatly I've heard such things before. I've noticed some people really would be happy if Russia didn't exist Sad dream on!

It' s not my dream but some nations inside Russia (tatars?). My dream are nonconlict neigbours which do not deal into internal polish buisnesses.
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«Trayus»

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:10 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
last thing we need now is the talks about dividing our country...

Divide and rule, eh? Good idea for some... hehe.. good friends of Russia. You probably don't realize it but when you say such things you just confirm Putin's words about mythical enemies surrounding our motherland and wanting to do it apart, destroy... lol Do you secretly work for KGB? lol!

Poland is Poland.. Russia is Russia... Life is life...

I don't work for KGB, otherwise I would obviously try to keep Russia one by every means. And no, I'm not talking about TOTAL divide of Russia, just in these places where people really want it, for example on the northern eastern, south parts of the state.

Quote :
.. Russia is Russia...
Yeah, Russia or it's predicessors wich never actually paid for what it did to it's neighbours.
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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:03 pm

NowhereMan wrote:

I am a "representative" of small nation.

Which one, may I know? Perhaps I will have more questions.
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:32 pm

Rzeczpospolita wrote:
NowhereMan wrote:

I am a "representative" of small nation.

Which one, may I know? Perhaps I will have more questions.

Komi-Permians
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NowhereMan

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:50 pm

Quote :
But I would compare Russian situation to American, that's totally diffrent, these states were united by the people's will wich were living in there in general.

What about the Indians?

Quote :
I don't work for KGB, otherwise I would obviously try to keep Russia one by every means. And no, I'm not talking about TOTAL divide of Russia, just in these places where people really want it, for example on the northern eastern, south parts of the state.

In every big country, there are people who want independence, and every government tries to keep its country whole, what’s wrong with that? It’s their job. Tatars is a poor example. They wanted to get independent in the beginning of the 90s, but Yetsin handled it quite peacefully (unlike Chechnya – situation there is his fault actually). I know lots of Tatars living throughout the country, and none of them talks about it now… My aunt married a Tatar, and it’s okay… they live quite happily.

Quote :
Yeah, Russia or it's predicessors wich never actually paid for what it did to it's neighbours.

I won’t comment this. You just wanted to say (as usual) that Russia is bad… nothing particular.
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bobhatersfriend



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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:03 pm



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Hypno
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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:11 pm

NowhereMan wrote:
And I can't imagine how can a small nation, that has been a part of the country for centuries, be indepent in the middle of this country?
Vatican? Razz And for other smaller countries, not in the middle of other but between- Andorra, Luxembourg, San Marino... All those are thriving in economy and such...

I heard that Siberian forests are being cut down- the government failing to protect them, also the Kamchatka Peninsula. The ones who are supposed to look after the condition there are corrupted and stuff...

NowhereMan wrote:
What about the Indians?
I'm 100% sure that the USA is not doing enough for them... Tho it's really kinda late now, it's better to say that they didn't do enough when the time was right.

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:24 pm

NowhereMan wrote:

Komi-Permians

Another finno-ugric in this forum I see. Very Happy Do you speak this language in home? How about local schools?

I read some time ago that some Russian nationalists from Zhirik joke party ran Mari Republic and were quite harsh towards the locals. What party rule in your region and do they cause any problems to Komi-Permian people?
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towito

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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:25 pm

Tatars is a poor example.

So how real is "fall apart" of Russia? Is this whole talking about it is sensible?
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PostSubject: Re: Why russian goverment is against the "missle defence sy   Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:39 pm

Hypno wrote:
NowhereMan wrote:
And I can't imagine how can a small nation, that has been a part of the country for centuries, be indepent in the middle of this country?
Vatican? Razz And for other smaller countries, not in the middle of other but between- Andorra, Luxembourg, San Marino... All those are thriving in economy and such...

I heard that Siberian forests are being cut down- the government failing to protect them, also the Kamchatka Peninsula. The ones who are supposed to look after the condition there are corrupted and stuff...

NowhereMan wrote:
What about the Indians?
I'm 100% sure that the USA is not doing enough for them... Tho it's really kinda late now, it's better to say that they didn't do enough when the time was right.

I do not see any point in dividing my country! it sounds to me like "let's cut one of your legs, it's too long and it will do better without you.." or someting..
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